Gee. Mike Westmore's aliens looked the same. I'm shocked.
My gripe about ST6:TUC
- Thread starter alpha_leonis
- Start date
Thank you. Jedda is Deltan in the ST II script, but the only way you know is a stage direction that informs us that Jedda replies with "Deltan cool".
Maybe Deltans wearing toupees helps with the Oath of Celibacy? Hey, maybe the pheromones come out of a Deltan's bald scalp, so the toupee blocks them?
Perhaps, deltans only lose their hair after going through puberty.
Not that I know of. He wasn't involved in the movies till generations.
I disagree. The bias from the Enterprise crew was specific to Klingons, due in part to the long hostility between the Empire and the Federation. It wasn't a general, vague prejudice.
Your gripe reminds me of a quote from one of JFK's debates. He was talking about the higher standards Americans set for themselves as opposed to the communists. The Klingons and Romulans were totalitarian regimes with perhaps an unstated racial superiority over their subject races, that we at least saw in Star Trek Nemesis with the Remans. They wouldn't, and they weren't supposed to be soul searching about diversity and the clash of their egalitarian ideals versus their real shortcomings regarding issues of prejudice, inclusion, or diversity. The Federation, being a multiracial democractic form of government-i.e. the USA-would or was supposed to be more sensitive to those issues.
That's why I applaud the bias shown by the Enterprise crew. It made them more human to me. Plus it gave them a hurdle they had to overcome, something to learn in the movie that we as the audience hopefully learned something from as the crew had to slowly change their perceptions about the Klingons.
Anthony
Lieutenant Commander
No, I don't know you very well. Should I?
Since "canon" is gospel here, uh, where in STIV's "filmed" sequences does it say that the helm officer's E-fro-si-an or that the Federation President, [aka alien Andrew Jackson] is in STVI? Where does it specify that in either film?
It doesn't take much to see the two are basically the same species, but you say E-fro-si-an--while the one in STIV's referred to as a Deltan in the novelization.
Explain, please.
Since "canon" is gospel here, uh, where in STIV's "filmed" sequences does it say that the helm officer's E-fro-si-an or that the Federation President, [aka alien Andrew Jackson] is in STVI? Where does it specify that in either film?
It doesn't take much to see the two are basically the same species, but you say E-fro-si-an--while the one in STIV's referred to as a Deltan in the novelization.
Explain, please.
Nardpuncher
Rear Admiral
The thing is you can be against the things a culture or society may do, and that doesn't necessarily mean you are racist. To call someone racist because they don't like the fact that Klingons are agressive and teritorial and are known to annex worlds is putting the cart in front of the horse.
As in it was me who had already written the article, "The Truth about Efrosians" last year, for a similar thread as this on TrekBBS, because it's a question that gets asked every few months.
Where does either film specify that they are Deltans? Novelizations are not canon. The author of the ST IV novelization was not aware of the new alien species term coined by the production because she hadn't seen the captions on the stills. Being a term coined by the production, it perhaps carries as much weight as the numerous alien species names coined by the costumer and makeup artist of TMP.
The FASA role-playing people did see the caption, which is why they used the term in the "ST IV Sourcebook", which is of equal canonical weight as the novelizations.
There was a Memory Alpha "history" conversation last year where someone actually rang Mel Efros, former ST IV Unit Production Manager, to confirm the story about the race being named after him. At first Mel denied it, because he really had no idea. Then he mentioned the phone call to his son, who made Mel ring the guy back a few days later. They confirmed that yes, official Paramount publicity photos of the alien Saratoga helmsman had been captioned "Efrosian" by Kirk Thatcher (who also played the punk on the bus and wrote the "I Hate You" song). The alien race was named as a salute to Mel Efros. But noone thought to mention it to him, and the term didn't make it into filmed dialogue.
In fact, the ST IV novelization does not describe the helmsman as Deltan. Not at all. It mentions that the Saratoga's science officer is Deltan.
As I said above, my article, where all is explained is at:
The truth about Efrosians
Anthony
Lieutenant Commander
Nice try. Won't cut it, though. You are not of the Body of the Universal Trek Church of Selective Canonicity.
I'm going to apply that little liturgical rule folks around here employed so readily during the last decade or so when things of this sort reared up, especially relating to MT's butchery of CT continuity:
IF IT AIN'T FILMED, IT AIN'T CANON. It's sacrilege to even think otherwise. Hmmph. Some "throwaway line" or whatnot, fanfic, profic, nofic don't count. Unless it's approved doctrine by the Elders of the Church of Trek, it's outright heretical, and blasphemous.
Beware the fires of Grethor, man. Repent, now.
I'm going to apply that little liturgical rule folks around here employed so readily during the last decade or so when things of this sort reared up, especially relating to MT's butchery of CT continuity:
IF IT AIN'T FILMED, IT AIN'T CANON. It's sacrilege to even think otherwise. Hmmph. Some "throwaway line" or whatnot, fanfic, profic, nofic don't count. Unless it's approved doctrine by the Elders of the Church of Trek, it's outright heretical, and blasphemous.
Beware the fires of Grethor, man. Repent, now.
Hey, you were the one quoting the novelizations. They are not canonical either, except where they agree with what's onscreen.
So the UFP president is "unnamed white-haired, blue-irised alien of same species as unnamed white-haired, white-irised, unspecified alien helmsman of the USS Saratoga".
Boring!
Anthony
Lieutenant Commander
Novelizations are studio-approved, remember? That counts a lot more than fanspec. 
Heathen! Idolatry! Unbeliever! For this, ye shall drink bitter Earl Grey until ye repent!
Old Hickory II and Saratoga's Helm Officer ARE DELTAN. Go, go. Read ye the books again, and mayhap ye shall be spared the torments of taking thine own medicine.
Heathen! Idolatry! Unbeliever! For this, ye shall drink bitter Earl Grey until ye repent!
Old Hickory II and Saratoga's Helm Officer ARE DELTAN. Go, go. Read ye the books again, and mayhap ye shall be spared the torments of taking thine own medicine.
Anthony said:
Novelizations are studio-approved, remember? That counts a lot more than fanspec.
What fanspec? It's official production information from the ST IV press kit.
I have read them often. ST IV is in my hands. ST IV's science officer is Deltan in the ST IV novelization. Most of his lines are delivered by a human in the film. The helmsman doesn't even get a physical description in the novelization.
FASA's "ST IV Sourcebook Update" was also licensed and approved. It is therefore equal in canonicity as the novelizations. FASA used the approved, Paramount-distributed stills of the Efrosians, which came with approved, Paramount-distributed captions that described the alien as Efrosian.
"Cinefantastique" did a big promotional layout for ST IV. They used the same approved, Paramount-distributed stills of the Efrosians, which came with approved, Paramount-distributed captions.
Roddenberry often said that even his own novelization (of TMP) was not canonical, except where it agreed with onscreen information. Do you also hold to the Kirk's ex-wife transporter accident theory? It was never described that way onscreen.
ST II's novelization chose to describe Saavik as half-Romulan and Sulu as a captain - and the author continued these threads through the next few novelizations she did, but both of these elements were ignored by ST III and IV, and Meyer chose not to reinstall the "Saavik is half-Romulan" footage for the ST II DVD DE; it's not even in the bonus scenes.
Where dies it state onscreen that they are?
However, there are bald Deltans, in Deltan robes, wandering in San Franscisco (TMP), on the Federation Council (ST IV), and at the convention in ST VI. All we know of Deltan baldness comes from the official ST Phase II and TMP writers' bibles, so it's no canonical.
But neither is it canonical that ST II's Jedda was bald, was a Deltan, had three Deltan partners, or that one of them had long, "fine, rose-coloured hair down to his knees" (ST IV novelization).
