My DS9 Rewatch Odyssey

[Farscape One]

A death that moves a plot along? K'Ehlyr.

If Duras hadn't killed her, 10 years of Klingon plot, politics, and history would have been totally different.

 

[oldtrekkie]

A death that moves a plot along? K'Ehlyr.

If Duras hadn't killed her, 10 years of Klingon plot, politics, and history would have been totally different.

It's too bad she couldn't have been left as a recurring character. I liked her. Plus she had a really good chemistry with Worf.

 

[kkt]

It's almost a shame that Spock's death occurred what would turn out be so early in the history of the fanchise, as, for this fan's money, it set an incredibly high bar for any deaths to follow.

While there are differing views regarding whether or not it constitutes a character, I feel the death of the Enterprise in TSFS merits inclusion on this list.

Kirk: My god Bones, what have I done?
Bones: What you had to do. What you always do. Turn death into a fighting chance to live.

I'll add the death of David Marcus in the same film, not so much for the death itself, which is tragic but for the fact that it involves someone we don't know very well (though he died trying to save Saavik's life), but for Kirk's reaction. I honestly don't know whether his failure to fall into his chair was intentional or not, but I'll use that scene to combat any criticism of Shatner's acting choices.

Sorry, but I was not at all drawn in to the Death of Spock. It was obviously not credible. You just don't kill the most popular character in the franchise. It was no more real than all the times in TOS when the Doubletalk Generators were dangerously overheated and the Enterprise was going to blow up in three minutes. The death of Spock (Just Kidding) and its Search of Spock sequel completely undermined the theme of acceptance of death and aging that the movie was trying to tell.

 

[Farscape One]

Given that it was 1982 with no other productions in the making, and a sequel was only hinted at, it's very much a credible death.

We have the benefit of a dozen more movies and 7 shows totaling almost 700 more episodes to look at after that movie. I can see why some people feel like it's not really as emotional as others feel.

Personally, it doesn't take away the impact. I agree that the sequel does mitigate the death, but at the moment in the film... I feel that pain. Maybe it's just me, but I can keep myself within a movie or series and at the time it was produced. Possibly why I can enjoy all the shows from each decade as much as I do.

 

[Trekker09]

Ananta wrote,
[Kirk’s] death didn’t feel fitting at all for such an icon not only of Star Trek but popular culture and TV/movie history in general.....It also pissed me off that Picard took the liberty of burying him on that random planet when he’s body should have been taken back to Earth for whatever equivalent Starfleet has of a full state funeral.

Good point, pretty ironic that Kirk’s death and burial wasn’t more grandiose.

One upbeat quote on Jadzia’s exit--Farrell said, "I don't feel cheated out of the character in the same way as I would have if the show had been cancelled, because I've gotten the opportunity to play her. And besides, it's Jadzia that's dying. Dax is living."

Still a bit puzzled re this episode --after Dukat said they should declare war on the Bajoran gods, did he know that the Pah’Wraith he released would close the wormhole? The Prophets prevented the Dominion from entering the Alpha quadrant, yet one Pah’Wraith is able to suddenly close off the very wormhole constructed by the Prophets.

Not that I really expect a logical explanation.

 

[oldtrekkie]

I doubt Dukat knew much about what the Pah’Wraith was going to do. He was possessed, willingly sure, but still was kind of a puppet not really knowing what he would do next except that the Pah’Wraiths were enemies of the prophets and therefore would hurt the Bajorans, if indirectly and Sisko whom he'd grown to hate because he didn't give him the proper respect he thought he deserved. Dukat really didn't care about the Dominion, except that the Dominion were enemies of the Bajorans and Sisko, that's the only thing he cared about, revenge.

 

[DonIago]

FWIW regarding Kirk's death, I don't think it's ever explicitly clear whether Picard is intending to create a permanent gravesite, a temporary one until he can receive a more proper burial, or just a cairn to mark the spot (i.e. Kirk's body has been beamed aboard one of the vessels retrieving E-D personnel and property). In theory you'd think Starfleet wouldn't want to leave any sign of their presence in case the Veridian system natives ever get as far as spaceflight.

As much as I have questions about how Jadzia's death was handled, especially given that we see a similar event literally in the episode before, from a writing standpoint I kind of liked the possibilities it opened with regards to having a new Dax host. I was disappointed when Ezri turned out to be a woman, though I understand that a male Dax host would have left Kira as the only regular female character.

I don't think Dukat had much idea at all of what he was doing either.

 

[ananta]

I’m still perplexed by the fact Prophets and Pah-wraiths can be trapped in statues and tablets. I mean, what the heck is that about? Why would intangible, incorporeal creatures be trapped in corporeal objects? I wish the writers had fleshed out the mythology a little more.

 

[Farscape One]

The Pah-Wraiths were trapped in the Fire Caves by the Prophets. Maybe there's something in the makeup of certain rocks on Bajor that makes them vulnerable. Perhaps it interferes with their veterons, or whatever, that keeps them trapped in those rocks.

 

[oldtrekkie]

I’m still perplexed by the fact Prophets and Pah-wraiths can be trapped in statues and tablets. I mean, what the heck is that about? Why would intangible, incorporeal creatures be trapped in corporeal objects? I wish the writers had fleshed out the mythology a little more.

I think t's the Bajoran version of a genie in a bottle.

 

[ananta]

The Pah-Wraiths were trapped in the Fire Caves by the Prophets. Maybe there's something in the makeup of certain rocks on Bajor that makes them vulnerable. Perhaps it interferes with their veterons, or whatever, that keeps them trapped in those rocks.

that’s as good an explanation as I’ve heard, I’ll go with that!

 

[oldtrekkie]

All the prophets had to do is tell Kai Winn to burn the book (back when she was willing to do anything to win their approval) and... problem solved. Something tells me that these gods are not as smart as they seem...

 

[DonIago]

Maybe they only want followers who choose to believe in them without a burning bush. Or maybe they don't want followers at all, or don't even understand the idea that they're worshipped.

 

[Farscape One]

Or they kept that going so Sisko would end up with them.

 

[Trekker09]

I agree about Aladdin’s lamp--and part Indiana Jones relic, part Moses’ tablets (the inscription that means either “suffer horribly” or “eat fruit” can't be taken too seriously). Seems like the writers weren’t trying to flesh out a mythology but to maintain ambiguity….the Prophets and Pah’Wraiths could be worshipped as gods/demons, or viewed in a completely scientific way. They are alien life forms, species with super-human powers, but subject to the laws of physics - both can be destroyed by chroniton particles as in “The Reckoning.”

DS9 seems to be moving toward the ethical dualism of Star Wars…away from Roddenberry’s secular humanism.

 

[dupersuper]

Adding my two cents to the moving deaths list: Lal.

 

[Farscape One]

Totally agreed.

I cry each time I watch it. Data lost his daughter... I don't think there's anything worse for a parent. Even Admiral Asshole ended up respecting Data after he tried so desperately to save her.

 

[Yanks]

Totally agreed.

I cry each time I watch it. Data lost his daughter...

Very emotional episode for me. The ending on the bridge is equally tear jerking.

 

[StarMan]

All the prophets had to do is tell Kai Winn to burn the book (back when she was willing to do anything to win their approval) and... problem solved. Something tells me that these gods are not as smart as they seem...

Heh. Yeah, for all the grief I give Discovery for not planning their arcs out properly, the Prophets / Par Wraith arc sure ends up being a mess when you apply any brain matter to it.

 

[Yanks]

Heh. Yeah, for all the grief I give Discovery for not planning their arcs out properly, the Prophets / Par Wraith arc sure ends up being a mess when you apply any brain matter to it.

It sure does. Many times but DS9 gets lauded for superior writing.