Again!!! Those were the words of SISKO HIMSELF.
It's a Sisko vs. Sisko issue if you will...
It can't be any clearer than that.
I know you're desperate to find excuses but I don't understand why. What is it to , you anyway?
My DS9 Rewatch Odyssey
- Thread starter ananta
- Start date
Again!!! Those were the words of SISKO HIMSELF.
It's a Sisko vs. Sisko issue if you will...
It can't be any clearer than that.
I know you're desperate to find excuses but I don't understand why. What is it to , you anyway?
I don't think it's used in that sense. The writer(s) seem(s) to think that "purgatory" is a stage on someone's way to hell.
It would neither be the first time nor the last that a writer got stupidly wrong about something.
I think the title is meant to imply being in between situations, implying that one does not know what outcomes and alliances will emerge. It doesn't make sense--in Catholic theology, someone in Purgatory is guaranteed salvation.
On the other hand, maybe there are references to Dante's Purgatory? I've only ever read Inferno.
Yeah, I feel the episode titles this season vary a bit between very basic and bland (“The Ship” and “The Assignment”) to maybe a overblown (“Nor The Battle to the Strong”, “Let He Who is Without Sin...”) and then perhaps just a little pretentious (“In Purgatory’s Shadow” and “By Inferno’s Light”). I love the latter titles, but I don’t they particularly mean anything. They probably just sounded cool. But I could be wrong.
“BY INFERNO’S LIGHT”
“That was my TOE you bastard!!”
Dang, although they spoiled what would otherwise have been a perfect 10 with some dumb, annoying plot holes—“By Inferno’s Light” is still a triumph, nevertheless, and one of the most important game-changers in the show’s seven year run. DS9 is a show that boasted twists and turns like no other Trek before it and the teaser here features one of the best and most rewarding ones of all: Cardassia’s decision to join the Dominion. Seriously, who expected that to happen? Yet it all works rather perfectly in the context of the show’s narrative.
The station-side of things is definitely the most compelling part of the episode, with Dukat easily settling back into the role he was born to play: despotic uber-villain. At one point the new Cardassian leader hails Sisko to gloat and Sisko asks who is on the line. “DUKAAAAHT,” mutters Kira in a voice absolutely dripping with venom. This new twist literally changes everything for the series, and we finally see an end to the Klingon hostilities of the past year and a half with Gowron finally pulling his forces back and gladly restoring the Khittomer Accords, with one of my favourite little speeches of the entire series: “Think of it, five years ago no one had ever heard of Bajor or Deep Space Nine, and now...all our hopes rest here. Where the tides of fate take us, no man can know.” And Sisko’s understated response: “They are tricky, those tides.......”
Before I move on from Dukat entirely, I do have some confusion over what happens. Since Dukat was an outlaw and no longer affiliated with the Dominion, who the heck was HE to open negotiations with the Dominion? Was he actually doing that on behalf of the government, or did he do it behind their back, in which case what we see here would actually be a coup, with Dukat and the Dominion overthrowing the government? That’s not quite clear to me. We also get no indication of how this new alliance is taken on Cardassia? Surely there must have been some doubt and dissent in the streets? Imagine if Donald Trump had allied the US with Al-Qaeda?! And frankly nothing was out of the realm of possibility with that man. A lot of people would have been rather unhappy. Although, given Cardassia’s authoritarian nature, I can imagine protest would probably have been repressed.
I guess pretty much everyone must have been anticipating an epic shoot ‘em up following the previous episode’s cliff-hanger, and that certainly seems to be the direction the episode is headed as a fleet of Starfleet, Klingon and Romulan ships assembles at the station. However, what we get is ultimately more satisfying and true to the Dominion’s underhanded, Machiavellian nature; the Founders don’t like battling their way to victory—why use brute force when you can use a little deception and sneakiness? The Bashirling is still going about the station, with Alexander Siddig delivering a really creepy, unsettling performance (and one that more than makes up for his abysmal performance as the possessed Bashir in season one’s worst episode, “The Passenger”). The shot of him sitting in the runabout, unconscious crew members lying around him, mimicking the voice of a female officer is extremely unnerving, as is his reaction upon being apprehended by the Defiant as he’s about to detonate the Bajoran sun.
It’s a neat plan, although in execution it feels just a little rushed. The moment Sisko hears from the Bashir in the Gamma Quadrant he leaps into action, ordering Kira to destroy the Yukon runabout no matter the cost. Really, that was just a tad hasty to me—how did he know the second Bashir wasn’t the Changeling? He jumped to a very swift conclusion there. It was the right conclusion, of course, but only because he got lucky. I rather wish we’d seen a little more of the Bashirling and where Odo was the whole time remains a mystery—surely he’d have been able to somehow sniff out the Bashirling as he did with the Leyton-Changeling on Earth? Nevertheless, it’s all thrilling stuff and makes for a satisfying, if slightly rushed climax.
I confess, the prison scenes didn’t do quite as much for me. I like the set design work, which looks like different to the architecture styles we’ve seen before, and it definitely has a suitably gritty, moody tone to it, but there are rather too many plot holes. First of all, I don’t really know why the Dominion bother keeping these folk prisoner when they could either be stored in stasis pods (of the type they put the real Kira in during “Heart of Stone”) or, well, executed. It seems rather a waste of resources. The lack of surveillance in the cells is also ridiculous, although far less so than the fact they simply kept Worf and Garak’s vacant runabout above the asteroid all ready to jump off to warp. The way the camera simply pans up to the stationary had me groaning at the screen in disbelief—“Oh, COME ON!!” This is one of those cases where the good guys win not so much by their own merit as by the blatant stupidity of the enemy, something the show has largely managed to avoid with the Dominion thus far. It also beggars to belief that they manage to escape Dominion space and make it all the way back to the Alpha Quadrant when surely Jem’Hadar patrols would have caught up with and recaptured—or shot them down—in moments. I’d have preferred they didn’t return to the station until the following episode or, better yet, that we saw something of what should have been a highly perilous return.
Worf does get a chance to show his courageousness in a battle of will and endurance with the Jem’Hadar first, although Les Landau’s directing in the fight scenes is a little lacklustre and I didn’t find this sub-plot quite as compelling as some perhaps did. I do love the addition of Martok to the cast, however, as J.G. Hertzler brings such a marvellous, imperious presence to every single scene.
Garak’s claustrophobia storyline did not work for me, I’m afraid. A claustrophobic Obsidian Order operative? Puh-lease. Special ops forces are rigorously trained not just physically but psychologically. Being mortally afraid of confined spaces is an unacceptable weakness; and one that could easily have been trained out of him with using any type of in vivo desensitisation therapy. I mean, how crap would he be as a spy if all they had to do to break him in interrogation was to shut him in a cupboard for a few minutes?
I generally found the extended prison sequences detracted from the far more interesting space opera twists station-side. I did, however, appreciate that we saw different species, such as the Cardassians, Klingons, Romulans and Breen all working together with a nice sense of camaraderie and I liked that Worf immediately earns Martok’s respect and adulation, and that even Worf begins to see Garak in a more respectful light. Yet, the internment camp scenes again made me feel that the DS9 writers take far too many cues from old war movies rather than depicting any sense of futurism and technological innovation. Again, I really feel the Dominion would be more likely to keep its prisoners in a MATRIX-style stasis pod arrangement, maybe plugging them all into a simulated incarceration. Would have been more interesting really.
I might sound like I’m a little down on this one. But, overall, although plot holes definitely marred things a little for me, it is nevertheless a thoroughly engaging thrill-ride which boldly changes the show’s entire tapestry and paves the way for what would become one of the very best story arcs of the entire franchise. Definitely an episode that’s greater than the sum of its parts (even though MOST of those parts are actually pretty good in themselves). Rating: 9
“That was my TOE you bastard!!”
Dang, although they spoiled what would otherwise have been a perfect 10 with some dumb, annoying plot holes—“By Inferno’s Light” is still a triumph, nevertheless, and one of the most important game-changers in the show’s seven year run. DS9 is a show that boasted twists and turns like no other Trek before it and the teaser here features one of the best and most rewarding ones of all: Cardassia’s decision to join the Dominion. Seriously, who expected that to happen? Yet it all works rather perfectly in the context of the show’s narrative.
The station-side of things is definitely the most compelling part of the episode, with Dukat easily settling back into the role he was born to play: despotic uber-villain. At one point the new Cardassian leader hails Sisko to gloat and Sisko asks who is on the line. “DUKAAAAHT,” mutters Kira in a voice absolutely dripping with venom. This new twist literally changes everything for the series, and we finally see an end to the Klingon hostilities of the past year and a half with Gowron finally pulling his forces back and gladly restoring the Khittomer Accords, with one of my favourite little speeches of the entire series: “Think of it, five years ago no one had ever heard of Bajor or Deep Space Nine, and now...all our hopes rest here. Where the tides of fate take us, no man can know.” And Sisko’s understated response: “They are tricky, those tides.......”
Before I move on from Dukat entirely, I do have some confusion over what happens. Since Dukat was an outlaw and no longer affiliated with the Dominion, who the heck was HE to open negotiations with the Dominion? Was he actually doing that on behalf of the government, or did he do it behind their back, in which case what we see here would actually be a coup, with Dukat and the Dominion overthrowing the government? That’s not quite clear to me. We also get no indication of how this new alliance is taken on Cardassia? Surely there must have been some doubt and dissent in the streets? Imagine if Donald Trump had allied the US with Al-Qaeda?! And frankly nothing was out of the realm of possibility with that man. A lot of people would have been rather unhappy. Although, given Cardassia’s authoritarian nature, I can imagine protest would probably have been repressed.
I guess pretty much everyone must have been anticipating an epic shoot ‘em up following the previous episode’s cliff-hanger, and that certainly seems to be the direction the episode is headed as a fleet of Starfleet, Klingon and Romulan ships assembles at the station. However, what we get is ultimately more satisfying and true to the Dominion’s underhanded, Machiavellian nature; the Founders don’t like battling their way to victory—why use brute force when you can use a little deception and sneakiness? The Bashirling is still going about the station, with Alexander Siddig delivering a really creepy, unsettling performance (and one that more than makes up for his abysmal performance as the possessed Bashir in season one’s worst episode, “The Passenger”). The shot of him sitting in the runabout, unconscious crew members lying around him, mimicking the voice of a female officer is extremely unnerving, as is his reaction upon being apprehended by the Defiant as he’s about to detonate the Bajoran sun.
It’s a neat plan, although in execution it feels just a little rushed. The moment Sisko hears from the Bashir in the Gamma Quadrant he leaps into action, ordering Kira to destroy the Yukon runabout no matter the cost. Really, that was just a tad hasty to me—how did he know the second Bashir wasn’t the Changeling? He jumped to a very swift conclusion there. It was the right conclusion, of course, but only because he got lucky. I rather wish we’d seen a little more of the Bashirling and where Odo was the whole time remains a mystery—surely he’d have been able to somehow sniff out the Bashirling as he did with the Leyton-Changeling on Earth? Nevertheless, it’s all thrilling stuff and makes for a satisfying, if slightly rushed climax.
I confess, the prison scenes didn’t do quite as much for me. I like the set design work, which looks like different to the architecture styles we’ve seen before, and it definitely has a suitably gritty, moody tone to it, but there are rather too many plot holes. First of all, I don’t really know why the Dominion bother keeping these folk prisoner when they could either be stored in stasis pods (of the type they put the real Kira in during “Heart of Stone”) or, well, executed. It seems rather a waste of resources. The lack of surveillance in the cells is also ridiculous, although far less so than the fact they simply kept Worf and Garak’s vacant runabout above the asteroid all ready to jump off to warp. The way the camera simply pans up to the stationary had me groaning at the screen in disbelief—“Oh, COME ON!!” This is one of those cases where the good guys win not so much by their own merit as by the blatant stupidity of the enemy, something the show has largely managed to avoid with the Dominion thus far. It also beggars to belief that they manage to escape Dominion space and make it all the way back to the Alpha Quadrant when surely Jem’Hadar patrols would have caught up with and recaptured—or shot them down—in moments. I’d have preferred they didn’t return to the station until the following episode or, better yet, that we saw something of what should have been a highly perilous return.
Worf does get a chance to show his courageousness in a battle of will and endurance with the Jem’Hadar first, although Les Landau’s directing in the fight scenes is a little lacklustre and I didn’t find this sub-plot quite as compelling as some perhaps did. I do love the addition of Martok to the cast, however, as J.G. Hertzler brings such a marvellous, imperious presence to every single scene.
Garak’s claustrophobia storyline did not work for me, I’m afraid. A claustrophobic Obsidian Order operative? Puh-lease. Special ops forces are rigorously trained not just physically but psychologically. Being mortally afraid of confined spaces is an unacceptable weakness; and one that could easily have been trained out of him with using any type of in vivo desensitisation therapy. I mean, how crap would he be as a spy if all they had to do to break him in interrogation was to shut him in a cupboard for a few minutes?
I generally found the extended prison sequences detracted from the far more interesting space opera twists station-side. I did, however, appreciate that we saw different species, such as the Cardassians, Klingons, Romulans and Breen all working together with a nice sense of camaraderie and I liked that Worf immediately earns Martok’s respect and adulation, and that even Worf begins to see Garak in a more respectful light. Yet, the internment camp scenes again made me feel that the DS9 writers take far too many cues from old war movies rather than depicting any sense of futurism and technological innovation. Again, I really feel the Dominion would be more likely to keep its prisoners in a MATRIX-style stasis pod arrangement, maybe plugging them all into a simulated incarceration. Would have been more interesting really.
I might sound like I’m a little down on this one. But, overall, although plot holes definitely marred things a little for me, it is nevertheless a thoroughly engaging thrill-ride which boldly changes the show’s entire tapestry and paves the way for what would become one of the very best story arcs of the entire franchise. Definitely an episode that’s greater than the sum of its parts (even though MOST of those parts are actually pretty good in themselves). Rating: 9
Last edited:
I'll need to re-read this when things are a bit less hectic for me, but I have to say, if you want to know more about the Cardassian side of events here, and going as far back as "Cardassians" and well beyond the end of the series, I cannot recommend the novel, "The Never-Ending Sacrifice" highly enough. In a nutshell, it's Rugal's experiences during and after the episode and provides perhaps the best insight into Cardassian society of this period of time that one could hope for.
@ananta: Great review! I agree with pretty much all you said. I'd like to add that in this two-parter we got the confirmation that the real Martok had never met Worf and that means that the one we saw in "Way Of The Warrior" was a changeling... and so we can see that the so-called Klingon blood screening is useless!! I wouldn't be surprised if even the federation blood screening was useless. Also the Martok in WOTW did seem to get the Klingon meaning of honor and that shows that the conclusion in Apocalypse Rising is utterly ridiculous!
Still one of my favorite episodes. Preventing the detonation by Bashierling and the changeling's look is fantastic. Worf vs, the Jem'Hadar still is one of my top favorite scenes, and I finally started to like Garak after this episode. It took me a long while to warm to this crew but this episode actually pulled me in completely.
The Jem first's reaction is odd. He knew he was going to die, yet he chose to stop fighting Worf. That's definitely atypical since the Jems are normally for "the order of things".
Worf seemed to break the "order of things."
The Jemhadar seem neither programmed nor fully tamed. I don't expect much consistency from them, even on the tightest of leashes.
It was surprising that the Jem'Hadar yielded to Worf rather than kill him.
I was just riveted by this whole two-parter. All these episodes are more meaningful to me now, with the rewatch and comments--insights and questions I’d never have thought of. DS9 takes us through so many sweeping political changes.
Some memorable lines in this script…..the one Ananta quoted--"five years ago, no one had heard of Bajor or Deep Space nine" etc. And, ”Make Cardassia great again” -- ha! The Dominion fleet flying toward Cardassia….wonder if that was supposed to remind us of Sisko’s vision of the locusts, in “Rapture.”
I was just riveted by this whole two-parter. All these episodes are more meaningful to me now, with the rewatch and comments--insights and questions I’d never have thought of. DS9 takes us through so many sweeping political changes.
Some memorable lines in this script…..the one Ananta quoted--"five years ago, no one had heard of Bajor or Deep Space nine" etc. And, ”Make Cardassia great again” -- ha! The Dominion fleet flying toward Cardassia….wonder if that was supposed to remind us of Sisko’s vision of the locusts, in “Rapture.”
Last edited:
Great review!
Agreed with most. But I do feel I need to explain Garak a bit here. I agree that his claustrophobia was likely kept in check while a member of the Obsidian Order. But he has been an exile for 5 years at this point, so it's possible he regressed a bit in terms of letting that fear get to him. And I think he only mentioned one time where this fear actually was an issue... on Tzenketh. I can buy that lack of being in a situation where his fear can manifest badly coupled with years away from Obsidian Order psychological manipulation will bring his fear back more fully. Plus, he just lost his father... despite the animosity, it was still a huge impact for him.
Regarding the runabout not encountering any ships between the prison and the wormhole... there probably were none because all the ships entered the wormhole and left to Cardassia. Remember, the nebula was hiding the fleet. I can see the Dominion sending all their ships in those sectors near the wormhole straight in.
I do agree there are a couple plot holes. The runabout still at the prison being a glaring one, but at least that is addressed somewhat as a plot point in a later episode.
The other is blowing up the Bajoran sun. The ships can just go to warp, though that does not help the station or the planets at all. The only way I can reconcile that plan is that whatever Bashireling was going to use to detonate the star would also somehow affect being able to produce a warp field for ships in the system. The Dominion has proven to be technologically superior in a lot of ways, so I can see them having this ability. Another possibility is demoralization... we've seen the Dominion resort to this with the Teplan blight and the second battle of Chin'toka when all the escape pods were left to be rescued.
I actually like the fact this Jem'Hadar First didn't just kill Worf. It shows a different side of Jem'Hadar, one that has seen a lot. Much like Omet'iklan. In some ways, the few Jem'Hadar we do meet give a broader range of what their species is like even more than the Klingons, which is saying something. That's a remarkable feat in my eyes.
As for Dukat, I have always felt he did it on his own. It keeps with his worldview of needing to be the one everyone loves. Though it does make you wonder how he opened those talks to begin with.
Excellent episode anyway, I also give it a 9.
Agreed with most. But I do feel I need to explain Garak a bit here. I agree that his claustrophobia was likely kept in check while a member of the Obsidian Order. But he has been an exile for 5 years at this point, so it's possible he regressed a bit in terms of letting that fear get to him. And I think he only mentioned one time where this fear actually was an issue... on Tzenketh. I can buy that lack of being in a situation where his fear can manifest badly coupled with years away from Obsidian Order psychological manipulation will bring his fear back more fully. Plus, he just lost his father... despite the animosity, it was still a huge impact for him.
Regarding the runabout not encountering any ships between the prison and the wormhole... there probably were none because all the ships entered the wormhole and left to Cardassia. Remember, the nebula was hiding the fleet. I can see the Dominion sending all their ships in those sectors near the wormhole straight in.
I do agree there are a couple plot holes. The runabout still at the prison being a glaring one, but at least that is addressed somewhat as a plot point in a later episode.
The other is blowing up the Bajoran sun. The ships can just go to warp, though that does not help the station or the planets at all. The only way I can reconcile that plan is that whatever Bashireling was going to use to detonate the star would also somehow affect being able to produce a warp field for ships in the system. The Dominion has proven to be technologically superior in a lot of ways, so I can see them having this ability. Another possibility is demoralization... we've seen the Dominion resort to this with the Teplan blight and the second battle of Chin'toka when all the escape pods were left to be rescued.
I actually like the fact this Jem'Hadar First didn't just kill Worf. It shows a different side of Jem'Hadar, one that has seen a lot. Much like Omet'iklan. In some ways, the few Jem'Hadar we do meet give a broader range of what their species is like even more than the Klingons, which is saying something. That's a remarkable feat in my eyes.
As for Dukat, I have always felt he did it on his own. It keeps with his worldview of needing to be the one everyone loves. Though it does make you wonder how he opened those talks to begin with.
Excellent episode anyway, I also give it a 9.
That's exactly what it was trying to do. It also ties into the non-aggression pact at the end of the season when they must stand alone or be destroyed by 'locusts'.
Taking the chip out of his head in The Wire could have made all the difference.
True, but I think it was just turned off, since taking it out was impossible without killing him. Same result, though.
Yes, my feeling is that what Dukat did was a coup taking over the government with Dominion assistance. The Dominion is like a lot of the European colonial powers who grabbed a colony with the cooperation of some local leader who made a deal he had no right to make...
I believe Dukat was conducting secret negotiations between the Dominion and the ruling class on Cardassia. He acted as a go-between but after the alliance was signed the Dominion (as a thank you) put him in charge, just as they later put Damar in charge.
Thanks for the recommendation, Donlago. I confess I haven’t read a Trek novel in decades, but I have some credits to use on Audible, so might see if they have the audioook.
Yeah, for a species simply bred to kill, it did seem a little odd. It’s possible some Jem’Hadar end up a little anomalous I guess, something we’ve seen before and will see again. They aren’t without a strange sense of “honour”.
Great point, guys. I’d forgotten about the implant, which may have suppressed the claustrophobia and, indeed, the trauma of Tain’s loss may have contributed to a flare up. It makes a little more sense in that context.
