My DS9 Rewatch Odyssey

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by ananta, Jan 5, 2021.

  1. FanST

    FanST Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Grand Nagus Zek is awesome ... even his weird laugh grows on you after a while lol
     
  2. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I can mimic his laugh pretty good. It creeps out one of my guys at work...
     
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  3. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    My voice has been compared to Wallace Shawn's on occasion...for better or worse...
     
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  4. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Commodore Commodore

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    Haha me too. Sometimes I hug my wife and laugh like that..It creeps her out :)
     
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  5. ananta

    ananta Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    “Necessary Evil”

    [​IMG]
    Ask me no questions, I’ll tell you no lies...

    What a fantastic episode! This really is nothing short of a masterpiece, and easily my favourite episode of the second season. It’s one of those sadly all-too-rare episodes where everything just comes together perfectly—from the beautifully crafted script, to the powerful performances and the visually stunning direction and cinematography.

    It helps that I forgot the finer details of the plot here, which unfolds in a compelling and intriguing way. The flashbacks to Terok Nor are incredibly well executed. It’s quite astonishing how some set redressing and a radical shift in lighting can create such a vastly different space. Full marks to everyone involved in the cinematography, because this is such an incredibly atmospheric episode both visually and in terms of feel.

    It’s fascinating to see the first meetings between familiar characters, from Odo and Kira, to Odo and Quark and Gul Dukat lurks throughout, a restrained but menacing presence with Marc Alaimo demonstrating what an asset his nuanced portrayal is to the show. I loved the editing in this episode too, from the opening shot which flashes onto the screen with a rumble of thunder and flash of lightning, to the clever intercutting between the flashbacks and present day (in one sequence it moves from children playing in the Promenade in the present day to two children standing behind bars waiting for their father finishing a day of slave labour in the flashback).

    Peter Allan Field’s script is phenomenally good. The plot is intricate and deftly woven, with the flashbacks absolutely integral to the plot rather than an unnecessary indulgence. Of course, Fields was a master of characterisation, and this really pushes to the characters to their limits, testing loyalties and ultimately delivering an enormous emotional wallop with the closing scene, where Kira’s confession puts a shadow on her friendship with Odo. It’s quite a staggering scene, too. How many times have Trek characters been accused of murder in the past? It happened as far back as “Court Martial” on TOS and numerous times in TNG. Of course, there’s never any question that our heroes could possibly be guilty (which I suppose is why, in general, such episodes don’t work very well). It therefore comes as a shock that Kira was guilty and did murder Vatrick.

    Now, we’ve known from the very first episode that Kira has a...sketchy past. We know that, as part of the Bajoran underground, she has killed many Cardassians. But there’s a difference between knowing something at an intellectual level and actually seeing it happen in context of the story. Of course, we don’t actually see Kira murder Vatrick, but the revelation that she did—and that he was, whether a collaborator or not, one of her own people, and not a Cardassian—hits quite hard. This is brave, bold, morally grey storytelling...and I am very much here for that.

    I also like that Odo doesn’t immediately let Kira off the hook at the end by assuring her that he understands what she did. A fake happy ending wouldn’t have been honest. Of course, we all know that their relationship will endure and grow even stronger, but at that moment, you feel both their pain. It’s a tough, messy, very human moment, and I love the final sideway shot of them standing facing each other across the desk, Odo casting his eyes to the ground. James Conway’s directing is strong throughout. The directing style in 90’s Trek rarely stood out as much more than functional to me, but this episode is a masterful work.

    Nana Visitor superbly brings the Resistance-Kira to life, conveying her as a wounded, beaten down and desperate yet determined young woman. Rene Auberjonois is equally brilliant. It struck me watching this what an absolute gift he was to the series, and it saddens me that he is no longer with us. He truly INHABITS the role, and although his face is hidden beneath a thick rubber mask, he conveys so much through his eyes, voice, body language and movement.

    I also love that Odo isn’t portrayed as the Security Chiefs mainly were in TNG and VOY—ie., their job was to fire phasers and act as away team muscle—but as a policeman who rarely uses brute force, instead putting his intelligence and skill to good use as an investigator. In fact, I love it when Odo goes into full-on Poirot mode. Before I forget, both Quark and Rom are used nicely in the episode, bringing a bit of levity and humour to what is otherwise a dark and bleak episode. The conflicted Rom clearly feels for his brother, but this is outweighed by his delight at the prospect of taking over the bar. Random note: the scene where the assassin attempts to suffocate Quark in the Infirmary—if you watch, the assassin doesn’t use one of those horrible triangular DS9 pillows to smother his face; he uses a 20th century fluffy pillow which is the first and, as far as I can remember, only time we see one in Trek!

    A beautiful piece of work, and definitely one of the show’s finest episodes. Rating: 10
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
  6. ananta

    ananta Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Oh yeah, it was quite a strong episode for Frakes. His acting rarely bowled me over, but he was really good in this, passionate and committed to the role. You felt his anguish at the end. I didn’t care so much for the actress playing Soren (I think that was her/his name, I’m too lazy to look it up!). She seemed to equate androgyny with being emotionless, which I felt harmed the episode a lot, especially in terms of selling a romance.

    I love the way you think and connect the dots between episodes. I’m not so good at that, I confess. I like this theory as it makes perfect sense. A brush with mortality will completely change the way you see and respond to life. Heck, my every day is a brush with mortality and it’s certainly made me appreciate and embrace living so much more. This could make “Invasive Procedures” a pivotal moment in Jadzia’s character journey. I remember people used to suggest that the Dax symbiont eventually overwhelmed Jadzia’s personality, but it could just be as simple as learning to change and grow and relate to life differently and in a better way, which we’re all capable of doing.

    Yes! I think that could have been a stronger ending, and truer to the overall theme of a female Ferengi proving she’s just as capable as a male. In fact, Ferengi being Ferengi, Quark may have gone away from it respecting her even more for being such a...well, Ferengi. (Similar to the way he wasn’t angry when Rom tried to kill him, but rather impressed: “I didn’t think you had the lobes!”). The ending as it was just seemed too sappy and weak. I would have liked to have seen Pel again at some point though, see what happened with her.
     
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  7. ananta

    ananta Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That is hilarious! I adore Zek’s voice and laugh. My sister and I used to quote Zek all the time back when we were kids. If one of us got into trouble for any reason, the other would be on hand with a “SHAAAME ON YOU!” :lol:
     
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  8. ananta

    ananta Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    “Second Sight”

    [​IMG]
    “And this is what’s known on the station as ‘Make Out Point’...Wanna make out?”

    Oh dear. If “Necessary Evil” was the season’s strongest, “Second Sight” could well be the weakest. The abrupt shift in quality is enough to cause whiplash.

    It starts off pretty well with a nice, sombre teaser, setting the scene on the anniversary of Jennifer Sisko’s death. As always, Avery Brooks and Cirroc Lofton light up any scene they’re in with their effortless chemistry and it’s a nice, honest and very human acknowledgement that grief lingers long after a loss. Sisko’s first encounter with Fenna on a deserted Promenade also works fairly well, and it helps that Salli Elise Richards is understated and charming throughout.

    Unfortunately, the episode soon begins faltering. Something just feels “off” about the whole thing—I’m not sure whether it’s the crawling pace, pedestrian direction, a disconnect between the actors or just the sheer weakness of the plot and the central ‘romance’, which isn’t horribly bad in itself—just highly unconvincing and uninvolving.

    I already shared my feelings about Trek’s terrible track record with romance-of-the-week storylines when discussing “Melora”. I think it may have been a curse of episodic television, and in many respects I’m glad television has moved over to more serialised storytelling. Whereas nowadays a relationship can be realistically developed over the course weeks and months, the episodic structure necessitates a whole romance in the space of a single hour, and that’s just not how life works, which is probably why they’re rarely convincing. “Second Sight” expects us to believe that Sisko and Fenna are deeply in love after just a couple of scenes together, which is pretty absurd. I can believe two people could become attracted, even smitten, in such a short time—but love? Please. These aren’t hormone-driven teenagers (and, um, one of them isn’t even a real person, but I’ll come to that).

    I think the plot contains the seed of a good idea, and one that has a nicely fairytale quality to it. Unfortunately, it just doesn’t work in execution, at all. The story feels more suited to science fantasy than science-fiction, although I guess I’m glad they didn’t try technobabbling an explanation for Nidell’s “telepathic projection”. It would seem that this projection existed physically somehow, but it might have made more sense if she had just appeared in Sisko’s mind and no one else had been able to see her.

    This episode might have been stronger had we actually seen more of Nidell, who only really appears once before the climax, and we learn her story courtesy of a last minute infodump by Seyetik. The idea of someone suffering narcissistic abuse is something Trek has never done before, and could have been interesting and powerful. I was once in a relationship with a narcissist myself and I can attest to how psychologically damaging it can be (I could relate to the short dinner scene where Seyetik is too busy bragging about himself to even acknowledge Nidell’s existence). I feel there’s a deeper, more serious and interesting story buried in here somewhere. Seyetik was a refreshingly different character for the series—the kind of larger-than-life type that would have been right at home on TOS trading barbs with Kirk. Both superficially charming and toxic, he certainly gives a sleep-walking episode a little more oomph, right up to his suitably self-aggrandising melodramatic demise (which no one seems dismayed about!).

    I enjoyed seeing the crew’s reactions to Seyetik, ranging from Kira’s barely concealed disdain, Bashir’s almost admiration and O’Brien wanting to be absolutely anywhere else. The Sisko/Dax scenes are also quite fun, and I find their friendship one of my favourites on the show and truly underrated.

    Unfortunately, that’s about all the episode has going for it. The whole plot, flimsy and contrived as it is, pretty much collapses in on itself and the romance falls horribly flat. I routinely defend Avery Brooks’ performances because I pretty much love the man, but it seems to me that he wasn’t invested in this script at all—because, frankly, he’s utterly phoning it in this week. I can appreciate subtlety, but he seemed visibly bored throughout this episode and somewhat disconnected from both the story and the other actors, including the object of his supposed love. I really felt like he just wasn’t into this at ALL...not that I necessarily blame him. As I said, there’s a decent idea in here somewhere, but it’s lost beneath poor scripting, some unconvincing acting, a spectacularly flat romance and a dull finale enlivened only by Seyetik’s attention-seeking (and quite welcome) demise. Kind of a mess, really. Rating: 3
     
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  9. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Mark Gehred-O'Connell did the story and part of the teleplay for this one... unfortunately, it's not his last bad 'romance of the week' episode.

    See "MERIDIAN".

    I am forced to agree with a lot of what you posted, with an addition. It's actually one of the few STAR TREK episodes that can put me to sleep.

    There's a few interesting ideas here, but they just feel like they're scattered on the floor instead of being at eye level catching your attention.
     
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  10. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Richard Kiley's performance as Seyetik may be the only good thing about the episode? One of the few good things about the episode?

    I frankly find Seyetik a hoot, but that doesn't mean I'd want to be in a relationship with him...or hang out with him for more than an hour or two. But then, I also enjoyed Lwaxana Troi and have tended to think that people who just find her annoying need to lighten up a bit. :p
     
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  11. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Seyetik was a nice change of humans we tend to see in the 24th century.

    Regarding Lwaxana, I never found her annoying. I always thought she just really lived life fully. Though what we learn in "Dark Page" is a great explanation for WHY she is the way she is, and not just with Deanna.

    The same goes for Neelix. The joyful exhuberance hides a pain and tragedy that no one should have to go through. A part of the reason why I've always felt Neelix's character was spiritually modeled after Lwaxana. Too bad we never got to see them in a scene together.
     
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  12. kkt

    kkt Commodore Commodore

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    I can read O'Brien's mind in this episode. "Being nice to visiting VIPs is officer's duty, and this guy doesn't have any actually engineering he needs done, so I'm excused, right? I'm gonna go get a synthale."
     
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  13. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    "That's why I stayed an enlisted man."

    I am exactly like O'Brien here.
     
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  14. ananta

    ananta Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It has a really sleepy, sedate feel to it, doesn’t it? At the end Sisko says something along the lines of “this was only a dream”, and the episode feels like it. The pace is extremely sluggish. For a supposed love story it really lacks anything in the way of passion.

    Oh, I actually do like eccentric people! I had a few larger than life characters in my mother’s side of the family, and I truly adored them. But there are certain people who are quite exhausting to be around for more than a few minutes—the kind of people who are always “On”. As an introvert I need to quickly return to my own space, as much as I love them. If I was around Seyetik for any length of time I think I’d have to kill him. But it was refreshing seeing such a vivid guest character.

    I love Lwaxana too, and I’m glad I’m not alone in that. She has such an exuberant love of life that is so refreshing, especially in contrast to the very stoic Starfleeters of 90’s Trek. I love seeing people who really know how to savour and celebrate life. It’s quite infectious. But, again, in small doses :)
     
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  15. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    How often do people ask you to yell "inconceivable"?
     
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  16. ananta

    ananta Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    “Sanctuary”

    [​IMG]
    “I assure you, in the Gamma Quadrant, this hairdo is the height of fashion!”

    This is another of those DS9 episodes that feels a little ahead of its time in terms of theme. Not that, of course, the issues of refugees and immigration are a new phenomenon by any means. But in recent years, Europe has seen a huge influx of refugees fleeing the brutality of ISIS and regimes in the Middle East. “Sanctuary” takes an uncompromising, if unsubtle, look at the way we as a society are likely to treat such people. When people start arriving, en masse, seeking help and shelter, how do we respond: with kindness and open arms, or with prejudice, hostility and xenophobia? Or somewhere in between? This issue created a great deal of polarisation and became greatly politicised. Want to know the basic reason a lot of people voted for Brexit in the UK? It’s because a lot of people don’t like immigrants and this was exploited by the Right-wing Brexiteers. Sad, but true.

    Issues like this can bring out the very worst in people. It’s not a black and white matter, either, but a complex one. Last year people were complaining that the (UK) government had flown in workers from Eastern Europe to pick fruit and vegetables. I heard the usual cries of “how dare they give our jobs to foreigners when so many people are out of work here?” The fact of the matter, however, is that there simply weren’t enough British people willing to do strenuous, low-paid work with such bad hours. Immigration can, in fact, be vital to a country’s economy (not that I at all support labour exploitation), and can contribute substantially culturally, too.

    If the Skrreea had coming knocking on the Federation’s door, we know only too well that the Federation would have done everything in its power to accommodate them (as, indeed, they do here, by finding them a new planet). But Bajor is a different story. In many ways, their response makes sense. Bajor is in disarray, and it’s not been long since the xenophobic Circle briefly overthrew the government. The timing couldn’t be worse. Yet, the Skrreea are offering to settle on an uninhabited peninsula and actually help contribute to Bajor’s economy and help with a food shortage. (In fact, famine in a 24th century where replicators are a thing doesn’t make sense to me at all—but that’s another story).

    So, is Bajor’s response partly motivated by xenophobia and dislike of others? I’ve heard quite a few people say they find the Bajorans unlikable. Personally, I’ve always had sympathy for them due to their ordeal at the hands of the Cardassians, but I can see where the naysayers are coming from. So much of what we see of the Bajorans in DS9 are snippy bureaucrats and angry, moronic crowds. So far in a season and half we’ve seen the Bajorans attempt to lynch a man out of racism (“A Man Alone”), support Winn’s toxic religious fundamentalism (“In the Hands of the Prophets”) and offer significant support for the fascist hate group that is the Circle. Between that and this episode, they’re not acquitting themselves particularly well. But, sadly, I see the Bajorans as holding up a mirror for ourselves as we are today. Let’s face it, the people of today’s world are far closer to the politically and socially fragmented Bajorans than they are the Federation.

    Anyway, enough of that—onto the episode itself. For all its lofty themes, I have to say “Sanctuary” is decent, but not great. It’s a slow build, and dallies altogether too long with the Universal Translator problems. It’s nice to have a realistic acknowledgement that communication ought to be an issue when encountering new species. Although, that said, it’s probably best not to call too much attention to the magical Universal Translator, which never entirely makes sense (Is it the computer, as suggested here, or an implant as “Little Green Men” implies?). I always preferred Farscape’s concept of “translator microbes” to whatever the heck the Universal Translator is. Some of the scenes are fun, and you really get a sense of the Skrreeans awe as they wander through DS9, and I did love the gag with Haneek and the dress (man, it WAS ugly).

    The friendship between Haneek and Kira is nicely built, and the idea of a matriarchal society is handled infinitely better than in TNG’s “Angel One”. Much of the rest of the episode didn’t quite ignite for me. The prejudice displayed by Nog, Quark and the Bajorans is a tad unsubtle and unpleasant to watch, but sadly, as I’ve indicated, true to life. And, to be fair, this episode does consider things from all angles. The sudden influx of people with strange habits and a habit of leaving a trail of skin flakes behind them is bound to cause a little consternation.

    Ultimately, though, things fall apart a bit in the final act or two. While I had a certain degree of sympathy for Haneek and her people, it gets stretched when they turn down the Federation’s offer of a planet simply because of some crackpot idea that Bajor is their “promised land”. I mean, isn’t there an old saying that beggars can’t be choosers? Whether you agree or disagree with Bajor’s decision (and there’s no real black and white answer when it comes down to it), Haneek’s almighty strop makes her a tad unlikable. The Skrreeans’ basic needs have now been provided for—it’s simply that Haneek isn’t satisfied because she has her eye set on another planet. Of course, you could argue that her grief over her son’s death influences her behaviour (her son is, incidentally, played by Walter Koenig’s late son, Andrew). I found this plot development—Haneek’s son going crazy and making a run for Bajor—somewhat forced; a last minute attempt to inject some drama and urgency to the episode.

    Ultimately, I was left feeling a little unfulfilled by this. It’s not a bad episode by any means. I liked a great deal of it, but I don’t believe it quite does justice to what is an ambitious and very relevant story. And, if Kira’s friend Varani is one of Bajor’s greatest musicians, I’d hate to hear its worst. His music is awful. Rating: 6
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2021
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  17. LadyMondegreen

    LadyMondegreen Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I appreciated this one if only for the fact that it did a good job of developing a genuinely gray moral quandary. After my partner and I watched this a few weeks ago we found ourselves in disagreement, despite the fact that we're both more liberal than average on immigration -- he thought the Bajorans were completely unjustified, whereas I thought the fact that the Bajorans were overburdened, war-torn, and would be unable to help the Skrreeans if their endeavor failed ("but we're farmers!" not inspiring a ton of confidence) meant their decision was reasonable.

    Also, if this is the episode where the flute guy was playing the theme song on his weird flute in the opener, I thought that was delightful.
     
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  18. ananta

    ananta Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I did like the fact they presented both sides and it wasn’t a clear cut solution. I can see it from both sides. I generally believe that how we treat those who are in need reveals our own humanity, or lack thereof. However...the Skrreeans weren’t actually in dire need at that point. They’d already been given their own planet. Haneek’s preference for Bajor was just that, a preference, rather than a need. If the Federation didn’t already have a planet waiting for them it would have been a whole different story. And I think that made Haneek’s “it’s my way or the highway” attitude seem indulgent and her attack on Kira unjustified. She was basically throwing a strop because she didn’t get her way. But...between years of slavery under the Dominion and her obsession with “Kentanna” she probably wasn’t thinking too straight.

    I did wonder if Varani’s noodling was a riff on the theme tune. But it just sounded like low grade New Age Muzak to me. The notion that everyone in Quarks would be mesmerised by it was daft. But, then, at this point in the show, the music was generally not a high point. I did quite like the character, however. I only just realised that the actor appeared in TOS “The Trouble With Tribbles”!
     
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  19. LadyMondegreen

    LadyMondegreen Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Oh yeah, the playing itself was nothing to write home about. I just thought it was a fun nod (assuming I'm correct that it was a version of the theme tune). Although maybe musical sensibilties have changed a lot in the future! Who knows.
     
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  20. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    More often than I'd like.

    I much prefer, "You failed! Miserably!!!"
     
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