My DS9 Rewatch Odyssey

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by ananta, Jan 5, 2021.

  1. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    What's shocking is that Odo's traitorous behavior will have no consequences whatsoever. Kira almost killed her own mother for less!!! Her mother never caused anything like this! But Odo she will forgive in the blink of an eye!! What's wrong with this picture?.

    Explanation: Kira's mother slept with Dukat but she never betrayed members of the resistance, she never caused them to be arrested and their plans to be thwarted. Compared to her Odo is about a thousand times guiltier and yet Kira will forgive him just like that!!! That's idiotic!!
     
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  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    She has a different relationship with her mom than Odo.
     
  3. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    She should be more forgiving of her mother than Odo.
     
  4. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe.
     
  5. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Why?
     
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  6. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    Both slept with the enemy but Odo in addition betrayed his comrades, thwarted a plan to defeat the dominion, and got Rom arrested. So whatever her mother did, Odo did a lot worse.
     
  7. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Given in-group bias, what Odo does is understandable as it affirms his identity. What Kira's mother does, not just because she is Bajoran, but because of her community and family, is taboo. Simply put, Kira's mother belongs in a way Odo does not, and probably in the eyes of many, including himself, cannot.
     
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  8. Vash

    Vash Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Seems like Odo was given a strong sense of belonging from the crew - they accepted him as one of them. What Odo couldn’t resist was learning more about his abilities, from the female Changeling. She offers him “clarity” - which he chooses over justice, and his love for Kira.

    It is strange that Kira goes on to forgive Odo for a betrayal of that magnitude, but her motivations are written as subordinate to Odo’s feelings…. she has autonomy as an officer, a resistance fighter, a friend, but not in a romantic male/female context.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2021
  9. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm not saying that Odo does not identify with the Station's "group," only that his belonging to that group is less primal and not as multi-faceted. Meru had many more connections to Kira than Odo did
     
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  10. Farscape One

    Farscape One Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This might be splitting hairs, but Meru acted as a collaborator with Dukat, who is directly responsible for many, many atrocities on Bajor. And she enjoyed being his lover.

    Odo, through inaction, caused Rom to get arrested and put their plans up in smoke. He enjoyed being linked, yes, but being linked could be looked at as being drugged from an outside perspective.

    This likely goes a long way toward Kira forgiving Odo... not to mention he came back and helped in the end.
     
  11. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And he looked good doing it!
     
  12. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    We could also talk about how people sometimes make decisions that from the perspective of an outside observer appear irrational, and how ultimately the only person who could answer why Nerys can forgive Odo but not Meru is Nerys herslf. :)
     
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  13. FanST

    FanST Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I do agree, Odo got off too easy. Even that talk with Kira should have been on screen. I would have expected Kira (and the others) to be mad at him for longer than that.
     
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  14. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    Whatever the value of the episodes and they are valuable in and of themselves, characters have been sacrificed to make them. Odo's behavior is inconsistent, he's like a feather in the wind. One day he'll be Kira's lover and he'll sacrifice everything on it and another day he'll act like it was some unimportant detail of his life... Consistency is definitely not DS9's strong point.
     
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  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly. There are a lot of factors that go in to it, and is not black and white exact same situation. Odo and Kira's relationship is much different than Kira and her mother's.
     
  16. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    I thought she was horrible with her mother. I would never behave like that with mine. Come to think f it she was horrible with her father too and he didn't do anything wrong, not that we're told anyway.
     
  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And I wouldn't with mine. But I know many family members who have been with theirs for not protecting them the way that they thought they should, etc. I understand Kira's attitude if I would never behave that way. As I said, it isn't black and white. Relationships are built on history, and trust, and age and understanding. How I behave in one instance does not mean I'll automatically behave exactly the same every other instance.
     
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  18. dupersuper

    dupersuper Commodore Commodore

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    Do we know that he's human? There are plenty of human looking aliens in Star Trek.
     
  19. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    There's not even a hint that he's from another species. Normally either there is a very visible mark or we're on their planet (like in "Justice" for example) or they tell us. Since we're not in one of these cases the logical conclusion is that he's human.
     
  20. ananta

    ananta Captain Captain

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    “FAVOR THE BOLD”

    [​IMG]
    “Well, don’t blame me... I told you I’m not a solid anymore...”

    “Favor the Bold” is a difficult episode to review in the same way I think I’d find DISCOVERY (the first couple of seasons at least) or PICARD difficult to review. Serialised storytelling negates the distinguishable beginning/middle/end structure we expect from episodic television and instead feels more like chess pieces being moved across a board, and that’s very much the case here. That said, it’s extremely well done and I found it much more enjoyable and engaging than I remembered. Indeed, I feel it’s a step up quality-wise from “Behind the Lines”, which suffered from uneven pacing and a redundant B-plot. “Favor the Bold” has the feel of a season finale in a way, juggling multiple plot strands, building up steam as the tension mounts and beautifully interweaving a number of enjoyable character beats.

    I don’t have anything particularly profound to say about this one, but here are some assorted thoughts. I almost cheered when Sisko unveiled his plan to re-take the station, although I also wish this arc could have lasted a little longer. If DS9 was being made today I imagine the writers would happily have expanded it to encompass the entire season and there was certainly enough potential to do so. One of the things that strikes me as odd is why the Admirals are always so precious about Earth, as though it’s THE most important planet in the Federation or anywhere in the galaxy. Why the elevated status and preferential treatment of Earth over Vulcan, Andor, or any of the other founding members’ worlds? Anyway, one thing I did love to see was Sisko express his profound love of Bajor; something that only seems appropriate given that the Sisko is “of Bajor”.

    Odo’s defection to Team Dominion is another thread running through the episode and it doesn’t advance much here. Clearly the Founder is manipulating and influencing his behaviour; he seems lost and confused, yet utterly addicted to his Changeling sexytime. One scene that did make me cringe was the bedroom scene (“so that is how solids experience intimacy...”). I just found it awkward, clunky and somewhat embarrassing. I’d happily have seen that scene hit the cutting room floor, although it does let us see that, in spite of his action/inaction in the previous episode, Odo is still torn apart by his feelings for Kira and how the Founder is wilfully using that to manipulate and twist his mind. Basically, Odo is a mess and the scene where he tries to speak with Kira shows just how badly he has fucked things up. While DS9 was renowned for it’s “torture O’Brien” episodes, I actually think it was Odo that got tortured the most during the show’s run.

    On other fronts, it’s nice to see Nog promoted to Ensign and I also like the fact Morn gets to play a small but significant role in the arc! Gotta love the old windbag. Rom again displays remarkable courage, while Leeta manages to be remarkably annoying even though she’s only on screen for a couple of minutes (less is definitely more with this one). The past few episodes have given us some great character development for Quark as he continues to nervously aid Kira and the resistance, and Armin Shimmerman shines throughout. Last, but by no means least, we are treated to Kira kicking Damar’s arrogant, sneering ass and it’s a joyous moment, even if it strains credulity that Damar wouldn’t put up more of a fight—after all, he’s bigger and surely must be stronger than she is. I have to say Damar is an incredibly unpleasant character at this point in the series, which makes the unexpected twist his character takes next season all the more remarkable.

    All in all, this is a transition episode and you can hear the sound of cogs in motion. It’s elevated, however, by the solid execution: namely a great script by Ira Behr and Hans Beimler that delivers so many wonderful, joyous character moments along with an impending sense of danger and doom, and Winrich Kolbe’s strong directing, which keeps the pace taut and the atmosphere electrified. It’s pretty much just build-up, but it serves its purpose superbly and is compelling throughout. Rating: 9
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2021
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