Must see West Wing episodes for a newbie

[Harvey]

It wasn't obvious Sam won the election. In his last scene, it's made obvious that he's going to lose. Schlamme's just winging it in that interview.

I don't know why it was left so much in the open during the end of season four (they mention Sam will be back, promoted). Perhaps Sorkin had some plans for season five that never materialized because he was fired?

 

[bigdaddy]

Sorkin's tendency to just drop characters and plotlines was the thing that annoyed me most about his writing of the show, which otherwise possibly my favourite drama ever.

It seems Sorkin and David E Kelly have some sort of competition going.

David E Kelly is kicking Sorkin's ass if that's the case. In one episode of Boston Legal you would lose more characters without warning then all of West Wing combined.

Perhaps Sorkin had some plans for season five that never materialized because he was fired?

He quit... remember....?

 

[Harvey]

Oh, he quit, right.



He's honest about being fired on the season four commentaries. That smoke screen has long since dissipated.

When it comes to Boston Legal, it was pretty good at explaining the absences of characters. Well, for a David E Kelly show...

 

[bigdaddy]

Oh, he quit, right.



When it comes to Boston Legal, it was pretty good at explaining the absences of characters. Well, for a David E Kelly show...

Have you watched Boston Legal?

In season 1-2 There was the blonde bitchy women left never to be seen, the black women joined the show and left 5 episodes later, coming back with no real reason or even tried to explain it, just to disappear again. They add two sub lawyer intern people in season 2, after 7 episodes never seen from. That's 4 people right there in 30 episodes of a show.

Sorkin did a commentary where he talked about how he was over budget, always late because he was doing so many drugs that he quit, it just happened at the same time NBC fired him.


Yet NBC keeps Zucker the Dumb Fucker! Go figure!

 

[Harvey]

^^
The blonde woman was fired by Shirley. Alan brings it up in a late season two episode. The black woman was never a regular, so I don't mind her absence. When she returned in season two, they broke the fourth wall and said she had left to "pursue her movie career." I don't care about the two young paralegals--even Betty White got the best of them, it's no wonder they weren't part of the firm for long!

On the flipside, Lake Bell was written out, as was Rhona Mitra. When Brad left, we saw that he had taken a job as ADA. When Denise left, it was first said that she was on maternity leave. Later, she reappeared and it was said the she left the firm. When Paul/Odo left, it was later explained that he took a promotion. Buzz Lightyear from season three, Jeff Coho, was written out. I'd say that's a pretty good track record...for a David E. Kelly show.

 

[bigdaddy]

Lake Bell was fired from the firm, Lori just disappeared.

And like you said, even when they reappeared it didn't make sense. Paul came back from out of no where and then got promoted by the Chinese, Betty White was the sandwich later in season 2, was shown for 5 seconds in season three with no lines, then was in one random episode of season 5.

Whitney was supposed to be a series regular taking the place of Lake Bell, but she ended up being in 4 episodes because ABC screwed the show over. IMDB says she was in 17 episodes.

Brad and Denis leaving the firm was weird, but OK. Clarence was a full time cast member in season 4 and was hardly around, never knew what happen to him. Was Lorianne fired at the end of season 4? I don't remember.

Garret and Sara the interns were still main characters, they should have been fired, but they were never written off.

 

[Harvey]

You're exaggerating, bigdaddy. And, besides, I said the show had a pretty good track record for explaining the absense of characters for a David E. Kelley show. Which is, clearly, far below the norm of any sane television universe.

 

[bigdaddy]

How am I exaggerating?

The only shows I ever watched from DEK were the first couple seasons of Boston Public (come on DVDs!) and about 3 middle seasons of The Practice, so maybe there are tons of examples on his other shows I don't remember.

 

[Australis]

Bump.

Watched WW 2x17, The Stackhoiuse Filibuster, tonight. I'd say that, if it's not too late. Great mix of politics, backstory, humanity and funny lines.

 

[bigdaddy]

Nope not too late, he's coming over in about a week.

 

[bigdaddy]

Turns out we didn't watch any West Wing and inside we watched several Boston Legal episodes, which he loved. Sadly I couldn't think of when the best ones were, like the Larry Craig ripoff one. However he still really enjoyed it, and loved when they dressed up as Flamingos.

On a West Wing note I was trying to figure out when they jumped a year into the future without explaining it. Turns out they just did it without any warning. The season finale of season 5 is Memorial Day 2004, that would have mid terms be in November because The president was elected in 1998. A few episodes into season 6 is only about a week or so later at most and then they are taking about the presidential run "next year", which would need to be 2005.

 

[TheGodBen]

The one year jump really cannot be explained away because Josh mentions the upcoming mid-terms in the same episode that the CODEL to the Middle East is being planned, then there's the bombing and its fallout, and in the episode where CJ becomes the new CoS someone from the DCCC sarcastically thanks Josh for his help on last year's mid-terms. There's no place in those 8 episodes that a one year gap will fit.

The worst part was that when John Wells tried to explain it in an interview he claimed the there was no gap because the show started during Bartlet's second year in office, which really makes you question just what he was doing to earn that EP paycheck during seasons 3 & 4. Or maybe he thinks he's a Jedi.

 

[bigdaddy]

He should just be honest and say "we wanted to do the presidential elections so we jumped a year". If he had planned ahead they could have easily fit a year jump somewhere in season 5. Zoey gets kidnapped in May 2003, Donna get's blown up in May 2004 with midterms coming up. Season 6 is a week later and the presidential election is coming up.

John Wells is even worse than I thought then. He didn't notice that during Bartlet's election time slowed down? Sure the first episode is 10 months into his first term, but still, keep up with the dates. So far in season 6 I have heard people talk about how the president was in office 6 years, 7 years and 8 years.

 

[Harvey]

I thought the one year jump took place after the episode where the Ex-President dies and Bartlet climbs the steps of the Lincoln memorial? But if there are that many plot holes...what was John Wells smoking? It's not exactly a minor continuity error.

 

[bigdaddy]

I thought the one year jump took place after the episode where the Ex-President dies and Bartlet climbs the steps of the Lincoln memorial? But if there are that many plot holes...what was John Wells smoking? It's not exactly a minor continuity error.

Nope, the jump just randomly happens in the beginning of season 6. The episode with the dead president is called "The Stormy Present", the episode before it is "Abu El Banat" which deals with Bartlet's son-in-law wanting to run in the midterm election. They talk about the midterm elections all the way up until the end of season 5 and the bomb going up. Then in season six it's very clear that the show's writers wanted to change the show before they were canceled and jumped ahead without explaining it.

There were several times in season 5 in which they could have jumped ahead and it would have fit perfectly, but they had all this talk about the midterms throughout the season, and that was just dropped without warning in the 3th-4th episode of season 6.

 

[Harvey]

It doesn't work at all at the beginning of season six. That continues right where season five left off!

John Wells. Ugh.

 

[darthraidr]

well the time has passed for suggestions, but i'll still toss one out. Years and years ago i saw an NBC promo dvd that had "Take This Sabbath Day" and epsiodes for some other nbc shows that were just starting up that year. That episode stuck with me for years until i finally got netflix and watched the entire run.

 

[bigdaddy]

It doesn't work at all at the beginning of season six. That continues right where season five left off!

John Wells. Ugh.

Yep.

Season 5 had so many places to jump ahead. They could have said it was several months after Zoey's kidnapping, could have blown past midterms and said they lost midterms again. All they did was make season 5 finale May 2004 and make season six first episodes May-June 2005. Just really horrible planning. Did he even picture where he wanted to take the show during season 5? John Wells is a loser that rather have all the characters mad at each and blown things up than he cares about a storyline.

 

[Harvey]

To be fair, the direction of Wells (and the other writers on staff) finally gelled during season six. But season five was all over the place, at times trying to recapture the tone of Aaron Sorkin, but without Aaron Sorkin, and at times trying to go to a darker, less successful place. And the inability to remember when the show takes place is inexcusable.

 

[bigdaddy]

I think it's clear they knew, they just didn't care. They knew when they were in season 5. I think in season 6 they went "fuck it, let's do the presidential election" and ignore the midterm references in season 5. If you do ignore those mid term talks during every other episode of season 5 the storyline makes sense.