Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by gakelly, Apr 2, 2021.
Count to four.
Hey now! Enough of this negativity. I have it on good authority that Nana Visitor and Ira Steven Behr...
...well, I won't spoil What We Left Behind for those who haven't yet seen it.
I always felt it had a TOS wacky feel to it. Not the best episode ever, but it’s not horrible either.
I watched this one again. Not sure why it gets such hate when better candidates easily exist. It's more "run of the mill" than "dire" or "****", but different strokes for different folks (YMMV). I also remember a couple articles and YT reviewers discussing budget issues and other things, but if memory serves:
It is part of DS9's first season and, yes, they were finding their footing. In the grand scheme of the show, I can understand and not disagree why it's not revered
Yes, the Wadi feel like filler and a sense of mystery doesn't quite shine through - unlike the costumes, which are as visually sumptuous as everything else on DS9.
Yes, DS9's first season is the strongest of any Trek show, barring arguably TOS's.
Even then, there are worse episodes in the series' run - and worse in season 1. Maybe one day I'll change my tune on "Dramatis Personae". Until then it's a weak redo of TNG's "Sarek", just with bits changed. Or "Q-Less", which feels far more out of place and tacky than "Move Along Home" could ever hope to do. Why the final Vash story was shoved to DS9 when they didn't really need another crossover... I read a few theories and facts and... meh. Even Lwaxana Troi, also shoehorned in and in yet another example of season 1 with what feels at times like "Must be clingy to TNG to keep the viewers even though we established from the start this is anti-TNG", feels more in place and that episode wasn't all that great either. Again, YMMV. Oh well. Anyway, they tried it, Q worked better in VOY, moving on...
Yes, it's clear they cut corners with the budget. OMG, we're doooooooooooooomed! (Or not.) Most of the "run around sets like how they do in any given Doctor Who story" (circa 20th century, like when DS9 was made) bits are entertaining enough that I didn't give a bleep about the cardboard. (e.g. the "Don't drink the water"..."the water is the cure" scene more than makes up for the Wadi folk music extravaganza. Again, IMHO and YMMV. Maybe by this point in television production history, this set back gave too many unsuspecting members in the audience any number of heart attacks, strokes, and fatal conniptions because it isn't as shiny as other episodes... (or because the content, ITHO, YMMV, was something they didn't find compelling.))
I still say the Wadi silly folk music Alamarain song and dance was intended to BE that way. Deliberately. Yes, it's easy to understand why any actor would feel queasy in having to do it, but their professionalism shone through as looking at the perform it and none of them is showing any big sign of "Why am I here?". Maybe one hint of a thought at one moment, but does it matter? The makers might all row, row, row the boat of fan consensus now but what were they really thinking at the time, before it was shown and thus before getting audience feedback where lots of people didn't like it? Or how much does that matter, are viewers allowed to have their own opinions, regardless of the official record as made by the makers prior to any reactionary content due to fan consensus and the kool-aid of the time? There's still a couple great lore-building set-pieces in the story, even if there's much to genuinely dislike or ask questions about.
And it's a great episode for Quark, which is when the Ferengi in the franchise finally get some depth and are not used as cheap comedy fodder. They were pathetic in TNG. There, I said it. And I haven't had my daily shot of Jaegerbomb yet.
I saw and adored it back when it came out... Having forgotten it completely since then, I need to see it again as a refresher and it's a great doco. That said, regardless if all the makers, in front of or behind the camera, all feel one way or another or the other, it's still fun and not yet illegal upon pain of execution*, to read the opinions of people who view it - then, as many are wont to do, reply back and forth and doing all but saying "Mew!" over why they adore, like, are indifferent to, dislike, or utterly loathe the presentation. Makes for a nice little microcosm.
* Like how they do on Deneb IV from TOS, where Spock described with an unaware comedic tone: "The guilty party has (their) choice: Death by electrocution, death by gas, death by phaser, death by hanging..."
Just out of curiosity, what's the other one?
And Alaimo said that he really wanted her not just his character.
The muse....both stories in that episode did not appeal to me.
I haven´t seen it in ages, but from what I remember, I consider it good example of early DS9 to be entertaining without trying to take itself seriously. Sometimes the zany side served the universe best.
I don’t mind the episode. It could have been great if they made the game more interesting. But it’s still entertaining.
I think you could divide Trek shows into several categories:
***** Trek at its most amazing. (Best of Both Worlds)
**** Really good, even as Trek goes. (Frame of Mind)
*** Average, but it's Trek so it's good. (The Hunted)
** If this wasn't Star Trek, it would be pretty bad. (Move Along Home)
* This is Trek... and it's STILL bad! (Threshold)
I found the concept interesting. And it saddens me to think that the Wadi were probably conquered by the Dominion in the next couple years.
It's unclear how much autonomy world under Dominion rule actually have. We only saw Cardassia, and they were (1) at war and (2) already under a totalitarian regime. It's possible that the Wadi are well behaved Dominion subjects, so the Founders leave them to their gaming.
It's definitely goofy and silly, but DS9 didn't really have a whole lot of that, so I didn't mind. And I think this was when the Quark/Odo dynamic really started to show its potential.
It's not great, but certainly not DS9's worst. I'll take it over "Meridian" and "Profit and Lace" any day.
Well, it's not as bad as "Let he who is...".
It's a silly episode, but it knows and accepts this and works with it. As such, in my opinion that is an important redeeming feature and that puts in a distinctly higher class than silly eps that do seem to take themselves seriously (e.g. The Reckoning, which somehow always reminds me of those 80's style kid's cartoons with battles between Good and Evil (e.g. Transformers), even down to sporting a Red=evil, Blue=good color coding for our convenience).
I like that much better than some Voyager episodes where they don't even try tp make sense. Like the episode where the ship is taken over by a "sleeping" species. Chak gets there and turns out these are just lying on the ground in their clothes.... Seriously!!! How the hell is this supposed to work? Who feeds them? Bathe them? Change their clothes? Or do anything that these clowns don't do for themselves? This episode is just utter bullshit that's not even ashamed of itself.
"Waking species" my ass!!! Plus there are only adult males in all scenes. How the hell does that work? Do they reproduce like amoebae?
There are quite a few Voyager episodes that are just like that. Some sloppy lazy work.
"Sloppy" seems to be a recurring problem with Voyager, doesn't it?
I still like that episode - it's a fun exploration of lucid dreaming. But I agree that the concept of a 'sleeping species' sounds a bit ridiculous / unworkable, to say the least.
Why not? The fact that earth biology took a different route for more complex organisms doesn't mean it would have done so on all planets? Frankly, I find that (slightly) more credible than the idea of a 'sleeping species' .
Of course, another explanation could be that it's only the men that sleep. The women could be 2nd class citizens, not even worthy of being mentioned, not being admitted into the slumber cave, but in fact doing most of the work in order to make the species survive.
Interestingly enough, Andre Bormamis wrote "WAKING MOMENTS". He was the science consultant for VOYAGER.
I didn't find this episode to be nearly as bad as other people feel about it.
That said, I also don't despise "Spock's Brain" and "The Empath" either....so.....
I do think my tastes are a lot different than most fans. I tend to value "exciting" and "unique" far more...even if the episode or movie is flawed. One thing I can't STAND in Star Trek is "formulaic" and "boring."
"Move Along Home" is not a good episode...but it's far from "formulaic" or "boring"....so it will never be on the bottom of the pile in my rankings.
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