I did too. That's funny to me now, looking back. Of course OK Corral has such an interesting mythology to it all on its own with Hollywood. No, they did not. I liked it well enough.
Hmm, interesting. I had no idea. I was fine with them personally. I can't say there was anything that bothered me about those two episodes. As a horror movie fan I admit I was curious to see what was coming through that singularity. Whatever it was made me think maybe the Romulans had a point...it looked decidedly unfriendly. I But what do I know. I didn't know Nemesis was widely hated until years later.
It had some perfectly good episodes: Enterprise Incident, Paradise Syndrome, Is There in Truth no Beauty?, Tholian Web, All Our Yesterdays... They had some perfectly good episodes: Measure of a Man, Q Who, Encounter at Farpoint, Naked Now, Datalore, 11001001, The Big Goodbye, Heart of Glory, Coming of Age, Conspiracy, Arsenal of Freedom, We'll Always Have Paris, Where Silence Has Lease, The Royale, The Schizoid Man, A Matter of Honor, Contagion, Icarus factor, Emissary, Peak Performance... "I need my pain." "What does God need with a starship?" Totally worth it. ...You're on your own.
I also wrote this: What was he supposed to yell after knowing the person who was responsible???? Stay focus. Completely different scenes which both had a particular purpose. Spock in ID had a surge of emotions during a crisis. In TWOK Kirk's response was a reaction after the crisis. Can you find an example which would be remotely similar in context? Yeah, and they have. It's as if they haven't even read any of the previous posts and just read my last post and responded without knowing the context. Some of the ridiculous comments from members about ID make me convinced they never saw the movie in its entirety.
You're still writing as if he HAS to yell something. "What was he supposed to yell...?" Why does he have to yell anything? It was just "too clever by half" for me. Had I never seen TWOK, I would not have had a problem.
I mean, that's their right. I felt the same way with all the Kelvin films but I cannot force people to see anything differently. Also, I think the Khan yell was unnecessary as well, largely because it takes away from a rather dramatic performance by both Pine and Quinto.
Yes, Pine does give a great performance there. And for me at least, it called more attention to the reverse redo of the final TWOK scenes where Spock dies. If they hadn't done the scream in the film, it would be a bit easier for me to ignore, or at least not make as big of a deal of. It's like they wanted to make sure we knew that was a TWOK redo scene. Sometimes subtlety is a good thing. Hinting at the similarities, and not rubbing your face in it probably would have been beneficial here. Instead of thinking about Pine's great performance, I was rolling my eyes.
Nemesis. When I first heard about the Romulans, I was stoked. A villain with the same tactical mind as Picard? Oh, this is going to be good! Then the movie was released and I went the second night, and it was me and, at best, half a dozen other people in the theater. A big theater, in a very popular mall. That didn’t bode well, and while I did enjoy a number of aspects, there were scenes my brain was already analyzing as being cliche, overwrought, and just dumb. Still, it was the first ST film I had ever got to see in theaters, and so that buoyed my opinion for a few days, but the disappointment eventually set in, and I realized that the potential for an incredible film had been squandered. Out of all of the films, that disappointed me the most.
While I liked Nemesis and thought it was a decent enough movie, I have to admit that part disappointed me a bit. It was the first Star Trek movie to really feature the Romulans in a primary role ( for it taking until the 10th movie to finally do that, BTW). But it would have been nice if they were the primary villain (or even a faction of Romulans if they wanted to retain the part about Donatra's forces joining the fight). While their role was undoubtedly the biggest in Nemesis up to that point, I wish it had been more. The final battle scene in the last part of the film is one of the best of all the films IMO. That collision scene still gives me chills and the sound effects were intense for that. And while I wasn't a huge fan of the clone idea, I did like Tom Hardy as Schinzon.
Oh yes, Tom Hardy was great, it was just the ham handed way they tried to make the Picard clone thing work. As I've mentioned in other threads, I can't stand doppleganger/evil twin type stories, and this qualifies.
Yeah, I get they were trying to go with the whole mirror/voice thing, and trying to get deep with 'what would Picard do in his place?' and all that, but it just failed to materialize all that well. If it were a lesser actor in the role I could see myself downright hating that part of the story, but he manages to lift up the role enough that I can sort of roll with it. The clone idea and the whole B-4 thing are 2 things I really didn't like. And I was disappointed the Romulans didn't have a greater role than they ended up having. But overall I liked the movie more than most. I usually have it as a middle of the road Trek film, usually in 7th or 8th place. To be honest I was actually surprised when I started hearing about how hated it was. I mean, it gets more hate than Insurrection I think, which IMO is quite a bit weaker (I actually don't hate any Star Trek film, there were things I liked about Insurrection too, if it were just a 2 part episode of the series I might think it was decent enough, it's just the story wasn't ambitious enough to be a motion picture in my mind).
It would have to be Nemesis. Though, I was tempted to say Insurrection and despite Nemesis may seemingly having the better story, the execution, to me, just didn't pay off. And even after I've mostly recovered from Data's death (uh, before his resurrection in a comic) I still can't say it was a good film or I can enjoy it. yet Insurrection was at least fun for the most part.
I'm perfectly fine with the KHAN!!! yell. I like the idea this Spock is emotional and is pissed his friend died. What are the alternatives? 1. Spock stares blank faced at his dead friend. 2. Spock stares blank spaced and states the obvious. "My friend has died." Both of which would garner massive bitch threads from Trek fans wondering why if Kirk and Spock had become SUCH good friends, then why didn't Spock show any reaction to Kirk's death?
Same. I really liked the role reversal here, and yeah, if I were Spock, I would be PISSED that my friend had died and the man responsible was getting away scot-free. ST09 already laid the groundwork that Spock would be more emotional in this timeline, because Sarek was a bit different, and encouraged Spock to seek out and understand his human half. He lost his home, his mother, his species nearly brought to the brink of annihilation, and now here we have an asshole hell bent on killing anyone who he deems inferior, and tries to start a war with the KIingons! So, yeah, his response is perfectly valid.
I dunno. When I heard Spock yell "KHAN!!!!" I literally rolled my eyes. The very first thought that came in my head was I couldn't believe they just did that. That was such an iconic scene everyone remembers from TWOK. I agree with fireproof. The rest of the scene was very poignant. I have some misgivings about trying to redo TWOK's ending with the role reversal, but I probably could get behind it without the scream. I mean, they were trying very hard up to that point to show us this was not just TWOK redux. This was a very different story, then at the end they basically redo the ending to TWOK. BUT.....that being said I could let it go. But the scream? Ugh, totally ruined the entire moment for me. There are a million things they could have done. Sometimes the most fierce, scariest anger is the one that isn't expressed in such a manner. A certain look of rage in the eyes. Spock quietly getting up with a look of pure rage in his eyes as he quietly gives an order to beam him down to Khan's location. Sometimes the understated anger says more than any scream can. Usually after such a scream there is some release of that pent up anger. Not so with a quiet, smoldering rage that he does not release until he is face to face with Khan. To this day, when watching STID I am half tempted to skip to the next scene just before he screams. I still want to roll my eyes and almost blurt out laughing that they literally tried to copy Shatner in one of his most iconic scenes.
I was thinking about this, based upon the responses here, and I would not mind the scream if it was just like a death howl style, or more raw. The Khan is the part that doesn't work. Spock could certainly scream, but honestly I would not mind just the quiet, pure rage, without saying anything. Just preparing himself to go beat Khan down.
I didn't mind the scream (as I said in another post I rather liked the role reversal), but yeah, that would work, too. Spock being angry is perfectly acceptable in this universe, and him just screaming straight from the soul would have been striking, too.
Those are the only two alternatives? The are many more besides a khan yell and those. A Worf type yell would have been preferable. And what about anguish with some split second flashbacks to losing his mom. A moment of stillness and confusion, then erupt physically in anger, smashing something. Yelli ng Khan was just offputting.