NEM: It's absolutely terrible. It's so bad, it's worse!!!
most disappointing Trek movie?
- Thread starter Khan 2.0
- Start date
Seriously? A Worf yell would be better? Don't get me wrong, DS9 is my favorite Trek, and I enjoy TNG, but it doesn't matter how somber and serious the scene is, any time Worf (or any Klingon for that matter) do the death yell, I laugh my ass off. At least Spock's KHAN yell is directed toward the author of his misery in the situation.
Possibly Pike's death too.
I prefer that over Khan. I never minded Worf's yell or any of the other Klingons yelling.
I don't think any yell is necessary personally by Spock in STID. I think in that case a look of cold rage in his eyes and a quiet order to beam him down could speak volumes. Many times it's the quiet rage that is the most intense. Holding it all in until you are face to face with what has brought on that rage. Then let it all out on Khan in person.
Many times a scream or yell like that is a bit too cathartic. After that sometimes you've spent the significant part of your rage.
But holding it in. An enraged calmness can speak more volumes than a scream, if acted the right way. The kind of calm that makes you say, "woe, glad I'm not Khan right now."
Many times a scream or yell like that is a bit too cathartic. After that sometimes you've spent the significant part of your rage.
But holding it in. An enraged calmness can speak more volumes than a scream, if acted the right way. The kind of calm that makes you say, "woe, glad I'm not Khan right now."
Mileage will vary. What a stupid line.It always makes me think of Q's remark to Worf: "Eat a good book lately?"
Both can work. Honestly, I just want anything but the Khan yell. But, as a detraction to the film it's minor.
I have this weird thing. I don't give a hoot about what a film references to another film. That's not what's on my mind as I am watching the movie. So, even seeing WOK I'm not going "Oh, look WOK."
Not do a pale imitation of a classic scene...?
Yeah, that's a bit borderline.... I'll let it go... this time.
It's like saying "Only an idiot would think something like that" while pretending that you didn't just call someone an idiot. If you see what I mean.
You know, for me though it was a bigger deal.
You see, in many ways I liked STID more than Star Trek (2009). It was going really good until the 'big reveal' that John Harrison was Khan. I was really hoping all of Orci's protestations that this was not a Khan movie was true (bad move on his part, BTW, at how far he went on that, but that's for another day I suppose). I really liked Cumberbatch and was glad he was not Khan. So that dropped it down a bit, but then my opinion started going back up after a while. I still wasn't thrilled with the idea of Khan, but this was a very different Khan story. So, ok, points for at least doing something different (I thought maybe there'd be some twist where we learn later that he wasn't really Khan after all, or some other twist that Abrams would throw at us). Then the final scene started turning into a reverse TWOK redo. I wasn't entirely thrilled with that, but as you noted the acting was well done, particularly on Pine's part. If the homage stopped with that I could see myself getting over that. I'd probably still think it was a bit too close to a TWOK rip off, but I could get over that.
Then the "Khan" scream happened. It totally ruined an otherwise poignant scene for me. I found it to be a significant detraction. To this day I don't know if I want to roll my eyes or just laugh. In a way, if I didn't know how much the writers loved TWOK, I would probably think they were mocking the Shatner scene. Now, I know that wasn't the intent. They loved TWOK and it was one of those 'hey, it would be so cool if we got Quinto to scream 'KHAN'. I don't think they'd ever mock anything about TWOK.
It pulls me completely out of the scene every time. So in my case it is more significant.
Now, as I always say, that's my opinion. Some out there obviously love the scene the way it is. I'm not knocking them (I mean, I'm one of the few that liked Star Trek: Nemesis so who am I to judge
). Just explaining why for me that one scream actually knocks down the film a few notches. I still like about 85% of it. There's still a lot of good in it and I still watch it.I don't think fireproof meant any insult. He's typically a pretty easy going guy around here. I think he literally meant he thought it was a stupid line, not that he felt you were stupid for liking it. I mean, I can understand why you might think that. But seeing his posts in the past, I don't think that was the intent.
Um, this was not a comment directed at you. The Q line is completely stupid.
I apologize for any misunderstanding. I stand by my comment that "eat any good books lately" is a stupid line and is a reason why I find Q completely obnoxious as a character.
Ha-ha. He is, but then that's what he was created to be, so in the case it's completely in character.
He does have one of my favorite lines in "Tapestry" when Picard asks him after he changed his history and stayed out of the fight "so I won't die?" and Q responds "of course you'll die, it'll just be at a later time."
I mean, that's fair but it doesn't make it any more enjoyable. It is like what many said about Spock's yell taking them our of the moment. Q does that. He causes me to roll my eyes more than following the story.
Yeah, I mean, if those are character traits that irritate you in a show then you're probably not going to like Q.
I also always liked Picard's response when Q tries to claim he is God. "I refuse to believe you are God, the universe is not so poorly designed" (not sure if that's an exact quote).
I'd say Captain Picard probably agrees with you about Q, though he started treating him more as that annoying relative that comes over at the worse times as time went on. Sort of like 'can you go bother someone else right now, I'm, um, busy right now'.
Accepted and I may have overreacted a little, so let's forget about it.
Anyway, the line isn't particularly smart I agree but someone who's attempted to shoot a viewscreen once deserves it. I've heard of people talking to their tv and some even throwing things at it in anger and I think it's about the most stupid kind of behavior there is. And don't tell me that it's because Worf was inexperienced. Experience doesn't make you grow a brain when you have none. Worf was just written stupid back then and the writers improved his character since... some.
I mean, I've done those things so I guess I fall under the, um, stupid category...from time to time.Accepted and I may have overreacted a little, so let's forget about it.
Anyway, the line isn't particularly smart I agree but someone who's attempted to shoot a viewscreen once deserves it. I've heard of people talking to their tv and some even throwing things at it in anger and I think it's about the most stupid kind of behavior there is. And don't tell me that it's because Worf was inexperienced. Experience doesn't make you grow a brain when you have none. Worf was just written stupid back then and the writers improved his character since... some.
As for Worf, I think it started out very broad strokes and became more, just like Nimoy did with Spock. A lot of times it comes down to not only the writing but what the actor infuses in to that role and what they want out of that character.
I mean, I've done those things so I guess I fall under the, um, stupid category...from time to time.
As for Worf, I think it started out very broad strokes and became more, just like Nimoy did with Spock. A lot of times it comes down to not only the writing but what the actor infuses in to that role and what they want out of that character.
It's funny that Spock has been written with emotions. In "The Cage" he was the only one who cracked a smile, if that's not ironic then I don't know what is. And then as someone without any, no matter the circumstances. I mean the worse is in TMP when he boards the enterprise!!! He's never been this stiff in the entire... saga. Sure he's had just undergone a colonoscopy (sic) but still.
Yeah, Spock definitely felt odd in TMP, part of my irritation with that film is how poorly it handles my favorite character. But, that said, I now take his stiffness as extreme frustration on his part. He failed at his goal and he has to maintain his composure with those emotions, something he now resents within himself.It's funny that Spock has been written with emotions. In "The Cage" he was the only one who cracked a smile, if that's not ironic then I don't know what is. And then as someone without any, no matter the circumstances. I mean the worse is in TMP when he boards the enterprise!!! He's never been this stiff in the entire... saga. Sure he's had just undergone a colonoscopy (sic) but still.