Mirror, Mirror notes

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by ZapBrannigan, Mar 28, 2021.

  1. Scott Kellogg

    Scott Kellogg Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    By Coincidence, I just saw Nimoy yesterday, playing a 2 bit hood in an extortion racket on "Highway Patrol" reruns.

    He played a lot of bad guys in his early years.

    Odd thought: A lot of his roles (like in Sea Hunt and Zombies of the Stratosphere) he was underwater.
    I have to wonder if he was a scuba diver in real life.
     
  2. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Wut, 50-somethings can't have lots of fun flings (and/or things potentially related to that, which may not be as fun - not as often a handful of shiny new babies, but instead various forms of shiny new itchy cooties...)? :nyah:

    Otherwise, yeah, what would Marlena want? She knew of the special control panel installed ("Tantalus", nice tie-in too...) where she - at the Captain's behest, it seems - can bleep anyone out of existence (until the plot demands she stops at just the right moment even though it's still the evil counterpart, which doesn't affect the primary universe's equivalent - but Evil Sulu was actually just as cool in his own ways and Marlena may have wanted him too, and he was salivating being next in command should Spock die, but I digress...) It'd make more sense for her to bide time, merrily pick off all the men, and eventually take over the ship and its worried crew then show the evil Slatfleet* that women could command ships just as effectively as the men folk? Or better since she wiped out a quaint number of them... :devil: I vaguely recall she had full control of the device and no pre-authorization code was needed, which then begs a slew of fun questions should anyone wander into his cabin - especially afterward when he goes to the sonic shower... *cough* Yeah, I'm confused to as to where her subplot was really trying to go. Her to remain subordinate to any newcomer captain that is promoted? That would have some advantages too compared to outright power, I'd guess.:shrug:

    * yeah, it's a typo but was such a good one and fits in with their way-out universe that I thought it should stay :D

    In real life and in our world, listen to the B-52s album "Funplex" if you can. The bandmembers were in their 50s (and 60s, woohoo!) at the time, and just about every song on the album involves having various forms of copulation, foreplay, and/or picking someone up for such activities... I wonder if the funplex is on the way to Pierson's B-n-B with her S-U-V? ♪ It's a great album,. Shame they didn't make any more after 2009... :(

    And how would she necessitate a ship transfer when she has that power at her command when she can lallygag inside the captain's bedroom whenever she likes? If she leaves and the captain returns, does he quaintly zap her too? I know McCoy whined "What kind of people are weeee?" then led into a song by "Information Society" known for using Star Trek dialogue samples, but little did he know how immensely whacked this mirror universe was.

    But it's been forever since I saw this one, so a rewatch is in order...
     
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  3. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    He played a journalist in "I, Robot" an episode of the Outer Limits where a Robot was accused of murdering someone.

    It's similar to "Measure Of A Man" except that it was made thirty-plus years before!!!
     
  4. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Outer Limits episodes titled "I, Robot" (November 14, 1964 and 22 July, 1995) are based on a classic science fiction story.

    Not the robot stories by Isaac Asimov which were colllected into a book called I, Robot (1950).

    But a short stary of Eando (Earl and Otto) Binder called "I, Robot", Amazing Stories , January, 1939, the first in a series of stories about the robot Adam LInk.

    Asimov was inspired by reading those stories to write his own robot stories, and was annoyed when his book collection of them used the titte of I, Robot.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I,_Robot

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I,_Robot_(disambiguation)
     
  5. hofner

    hofner Commodore Commodore

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    I listened to "I, Robot" in audiobook format not long ago and I remember in the preface, Asimov writing about that. I also listened to his four novel robot series, good stories. Funny how Asimov took 27 years to write the 3rd book after the 2nd one, I guess he couldn't get inspired. He did say it can be pretty hard to write a science fiction murder mystery story.

    Ha, people have sometimes called me Robbie although I'm not a robot.

    Robert
     
  6. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's funny to me to see all this debate about how the Mirror Universe isn't scientific or logical. ST is a show where the basic premises involve faster than light travel, transporters that can reduce people down to the atoms and reassemble them within a matter of seconds, every alien race can mate with every other alien race (95% of which are humanoid bipeds), and time travel goes from revolutionary to routine within the space of two years. So to see people suddenly get bent out of shape over a parallel universe where all the regular characters are evil is just... :rolleyes:

    Star Trek is pulp. It's always been pulp. Once you understand and accept that, it all makes sense.
     
  7. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But not everyone in the Mirror universe was evil! Spock for instance was not as vicious or brutal as Captain Kirk in that reality although his punishing of Lt.Kyle with his own agonizer could dispute that! :vulcan:
    JB
     
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  8. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    Well, maybe he set the agonizer on extremely painful (which happens to be the lowest setting)...
     
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  9. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    Spock NOT viscous or brutal?
    Watch from 1:35 on...


    Just because he didn't rant or rave - that was a very viscous/brutal person.
     
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  10. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But he still didn't raise the alarm when he realised that Kirk and the away team were not his Captain and shipmates! :vulcan:
    JB
     
  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Calculating his advantage.
     
  12. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    It could also have been that they were under the influence of a drug or a virus.
     
  13. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Your comment is illogical! :vulcan:
    JB
     
  14. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    Why is that? They looked exactly the same so it stood to reason that something had been done to their minds.

    If someone you know was acting strange, which possibility would seem most likely to you? That they are drugged? Or that they come from another universe?
     
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  15. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    Spock had mind melded with Dr. McCoy thus at the point where he let them go he knew exactly who they were and where they were from. Even if he didn't follow PU Kirk's suggestion - Spock would have the advantage when MU Kirk returned, and I'm sure he planned to make use of that advantage in some way once MU Kirk returned.

    Logically there was no advantage to advertising the situation to the rest of the crew, so Spock didn't.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
  16. cgervasi

    cgervasi Commander Red Shirt

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    She clearly had the power to use the Tantalus Field without Kirk's authorization. That suggests they were more of a power couple; she wasn't just his trophy. I suppose in the Mirror Universe, star ship captains have the Sword of Damocles hanging over them and can't trust anyone. It seems like Kirk trusts Marlena somewhat, but a lot of that it would be riskier to betray him than to stay with him.

    It's interesting that after hearing a few lines the Kirk, Scotty, McCoy, and Uhura talking about the importance of saving Mirror Spock's life, Marlena is ready to leave her home and move to the Prime universe. Does this suggest that many residents of the Mirror Universe would jump at the chance to live in Prime Universe? It's weird how Marlena appears eager to go to the Prime universe, whereas Spock candidly states that one drawback of freedom would be relinquishing the unjust power he holds. Is Marlena more moral than Spock? Or does she have less power to lose b/c she's lower on the pecking order, despite being Kirk's lover and confidant? Or could it be that she thought she would have a better chance of gaining power in the Prime Universe, where people are less ruthless?
     
  17. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    MU Spock is satisfied with the position he holds on the 1701. He's second in command and is definitely respected and feared by all aboard.

    Also I don't think MU Spock is concerned overmuch about his position aboard the Enterprise. His comment to PU Kirk about "A man must also have the power..."; is in response to Kirk's suggestion that Spock could lead a revolution to reshape the Empire, so it avoids the Halkin's prediction that the Empire will one day be overthrown. Thus when PU Kirk informs MU Spock about the Tantalus Field device in his quarters; it's pretty clear MU Spock (who now realizes that device is how so many of Kirk's enemies have "Just disappeared"); might allow him to successfully pull off such a revolution; so he is being 100% truthful when he says to PU Kirk:

    "Captain Kirk, I will consider it.."

    Marlena Moreau is just a female science officer on the ship. Any power or position she currently holds is because the crew has knowledge that she is "The Captain's Woman", and for her it's a very precarious position, which up until PU Kirk showed up, she thought was waning. I got the impression she's very tired of all the work it takes to maintain that relationship; and she feels that if PU Kirk is an example of how people treat each other in that universe, yes it's a universe she would like to live in.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2021
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  18. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

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    Are we allowed to talk about Discovery's third season yet?

    No matter I'm gonna put my comment in a spoiler box, just in case.

    I think the last incursion in the mirror universe is really cool. The way they all kill each other, plus the random acts of cruelty are really badass.
     
  19. cgervasi

    cgervasi Commander Red Shirt

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    I never thought of it that way. Kirk says "you can defend yourself better than any man in the fleet." Spock says, "a man must also have the power." I thought he meant that he accepted a) Kirk's claim that a revolution would be desirable and b) he could defend himself if he staged a coup, but he would miss his position of personal power.
    After reading your interpretation I think he was saying "in addition to defending myself, I would need power to seize the initiative. It would take more than defending myself against what the empire would do to me; I would need power to take actions that would force the empire to try to respond to what I would do". This line, as you say, gives Kirk the opening to share the secret of the Tantalus field.

    The two people from the mirror universe we see who are offered the chance to live in a more Prime-like universe are interested in doing so. They don't say something like "ideally, yes, but do you really think the underclasses can be equal citizens. That would create it's own inefficiencies. Sneeky politicians and lawyers would trick the underclass into serving them. Without ruthless competition, the strong wouldn't rise to the top. People would become decadent. Just look at the natural selective process that got mankind dominion over the other animals of Earth. You can't make that reality go away. The self interest of the powerful managing slaves and the underclasses is actually more humane because the powerful have a vested interest in keeping them healthy and productive, and they have the ability to do it, much more so than if we were led by tricky politicians pandering the whims of every uneducated Orion slave."
     
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  20. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Spock must have been influential in a revolt. Less than a hundred years later (not 240 years), the Empire was gone and replaced by the Alliance as shown in DS9, Through The Looking Glass.
     
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