Hey, if anyone disagrees with that, in the 24th century their minds will just get fixed up.
Middle-Easterners in "Discovery"
- Thread starter Lord Garth
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Hey, if anyone disagrees with that, in the 24th century their minds will just get fixed up.
The notion that educated people would universally conclude that religious concepts and precepts are false and unnecessary is ridiculous, and disregards any other reason why humans would choose to adhere to a religious belief.
The fact that you conclude the exposure to "reason" will eventually lead to the absence of "superstition" is directly analogous to colonial attitudes that exposure to proper education would lead to Africans abandoning their long held cultural standards and beliefs. Education and "improvement" was a driving force behind a great deal of the colonial efforts.
I am not starting to link more articles here, as people obviously are not gonna believe them anyway. The matter has been studied a lot, but I am ultimately arguing with people who seem to think that science and bronze age fairy tales are equally valid methods of obtaining information about the reality, so I doubt any number of peer-reviewed studies is gonna cut it.
We have members of every major religion and several references to smaller beliefs that are immediately met with understanding no matter what member of Starfleet they're said to.
That implies the continued existance day to day of nearly every current belief, faith, "personal philosophy" etc that all humans are familiar with to the degree that they seemed to have been exposed to them on a basis that means no remark goes over their head.
And it appears aliens who believe similar things have been a factor in this happening, with them joining in services on Earth and starships to bolster the numbers and keep the faiths going.
That implies the continued existance day to day of nearly every current belief, faith, "personal philosophy" etc that all humans are familiar with to the degree that they seemed to have been exposed to them on a basis that means no remark goes over their head.
And it appears aliens who believe similar things have been a factor in this happening, with them joining in services on Earth and starships to bolster the numbers and keep the faiths going.
I think that's a particularly rosy way to look at how multiculturalism is depicted in Star Trek.
You're arguing with people who think that the notion that humankind will achieve unity by eliminating all differences of belief, culture and personal points of view is a horror rather than a "hopeful vision."
I'm as near to an atheist as makes no difference, and I'm pretty sure that everyone on Earth agreeing that there is no God would not solve all of the problems that some of y'all fantasize that it would.
You quoted an article which then sourced a print study without actually quoting anything from the said study. So the act of posting a link illuminated nothing and now you're throwing wild accusations around, which no one here was defending.
Strong, unsubstantiated opinions are often an indication of poor critical thinking skills.
Did I say they all held hands at the end of the day? just that they all still exist, with everything that comes with that.
I'd say there are still parts of Earth were interpersonal conflict is a problem daily for even the 24th century, with different beliefs and opinions dividing things. Maybe not as big and violent a scale as now.
Catholic Mass still exists in the 2150's, I guarantee you the Pope of that era still hates on LGBTQ people serving in Starfleet and sends out subspace podcasts denouncing them to serving personnel, who conflict with each other on it.
Still areas where white supremecists and uses the Eastern Coalition being the enemy in the Third World War to have a large following across the Earth.
Terra Prime probably never went away and islands could be populated by people who depise aliens and live away from the rest of the human race.
Life is ugly, and it will never not be.
I think showing some of that lingering conflict would be more interesting than the Berman era sameness. Perhaps Discovery will tap into that vein of drama.
This isn't what people are saying - the actual thing they are saying is that people don't choose conventional and restrictive beliefs, the more freedom they are given in the matter. Education provides more choices, and let's people know things that call conventional beliefs into question. Religion isn't ridiculous - but it is clearly an ephemeral phenomenon when you take a step back and view things on the scale of evolutionary or cosmic time.
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I'd think so. Since people are complex beings that are really damn good at holding opposing ideals and not getting along over them.
For a start, I may not be religious but I've worn a pentacle for 13 years now, and I've noticed quite a few other people wearing them who look just like everyone else other than that one little thing. Even random adverts recently, this year. I know the studio would never do it because Christian viewers would cry murder, but it's just something a lot of people do.
People aren't just going to give up entire aspects of their lives or communities. Star trek got that hilariously wrong on occasion.
I'm not saying they need to have fistfights or anything so dramatic, but just a little tension here and there could be enough to create plotlines in itself. Starships are little metal bottles filled to the brim with people with beliefs and opinions on *everything*. That's a goldmine of interactions they just pretended never happened or mattered.
Acknowledging the continued existence of religious perspectives - even in the 24th century isn't "editing in" a religious character.
Either what we now consider "mainstream" religion exists in the 24th century or it doesn't, and avoiding the inclusion of characters that adhere to one of the world's (currently) largest faiths seems to indicate that the "utopia" so beloved in Star Trek has excised commonplace religious doctrines.
Now some Trek fans may be just fine - and even welcome - that kind of future, but some don't, and it grates on them.
Either what we now consider "mainstream" religion exists in the 24th century or it doesn't, and avoiding the inclusion of characters that adhere to one of the world's (currently) largest faiths seems to indicate that the "utopia" so beloved in Star Trek has excised commonplace religious doctrines.
Now some Trek fans may be just fine - and even welcome - that kind of future, but some don't, and it grates on them.
Two more articles:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/camels...theism-rates-correlate-with-education-levels/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...analysis-of-scores-of-scientific-8758046.html
"A piece of University of Rochester analysis, led by Professor Miron Zuckerman, found “a reliable negative relation between intelligence and religiosity” in 53 out of 63 studies."
Do I need to link all those studies individually or this good enough?
It would just create new, violent disagreements on right and wrong. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
I think TNG got it mostly right. I really like how in 'Sub Rosa' they have this seemingly Anglican service, but in the prayer the references to supernatural is replaced with secular elements. This I like, and find plausible. Keep the traditions, jettison the superstition. I can certainly celebrate Christmas and think Jesus had some good teachings without thinking that the they guy was a literal god.
I think South Park did an episode on this.
When did co-relation start being equivalent to causation?
Perhaps I need to be better educated.
Which may work for some, but we see throughout the rest of Trek that purely spiritual and religious services exist alongside them too for those that want them. Everyone's needs in terms of a faith are being met well into the 2400's. Which is exactly what you'd expect.
People can and will have culture and personal points of view without needing to believe nonsense. Are you also upset that there are no flat earthers on the team on any of the CSI shows?
It would not solve all problems. However, I think many big problems humanity has today stem from disrespect of reason and thinking that one persons nonsense is just as good as other person's facts.
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