I forgot all about that line. I wonder what the Ithenites bring to the table to qualify them for that company. Also, has first contact with them been made? Daniels certainly seems to think Archer would know them and be impressed.
Michelle Paradise: Seasons 3 and 4 covered rebuilding Federation arc; seasons 5 onward = new
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I forgot all about that line. I wonder what the Ithenites bring to the table to qualify them for that company. Also, has first contact with them been made? Daniels certainly seems to think Archer would know them and be impressed.
::Shrugs::
I don't think the Ithenites are all that developed as a race. I think they were a background alien species in TOS that has never been revisited in modern Trek. So there is alot of 'Story Telling' potential to be had with them.
I figured something might be up, but I didn't know it was related to a play.
If that's the case, then it looks like I'll probably get my wish in Season 5.
Almost no show is any one thing at all times, but TNG was absolutely a middle-brown action/adventure program whose plot lines were designed in the majority of episodes to hinge on some form of violence or physical danger.
I mean, what you're describing here would almost certainly itself actually end up as a subplot that unfolds in the background. Like, sure, they could do episodes about, say, developing futuristic infrastructure -- but realistically, just showing a construction crew in space isn't really a story. You need conflict and tension to have a story -- so right off the bat, the most likely version you'll see of a "space construction" episode is one where, say, the big piece of space infrastructure has something go wrong with it that places characters in danger, and then the characters will have to take action in some way to save themselves and/or others. OR, maybe you're being really fancy and high-brow and decide that your tension and conflict are all gonna come from characters relating to one-another and not from any plot involving danger. But in either scenario, you will have made the actual "hey we're building stuff here" element a background element to the episode's real story -- that real story being in one scenario a disaster survival story, and in another scenario being a characters' relationship story, but in either one the building stuff ends up being background.
I mean, sure, but how would that be meaningfully different from what we saw in "All Is Possible?" More than likely you just end up hitting the same notes that episode did and it'll feel repetitive unless you find some new twist. Which probably results in you constructing an episode where that renegotiation ends up being, again, a secondary plot rather than the main plot.
Says who? That's an assumption fans made; nothing establishing that ever appeared onscreen.
I think those could all be very interesting stories! I also think that those plots would lend themselves to creating scenarios where they become the ongoing B-plot to individual episodes' A-plots. "The crew wrestles with old Federation Earth-centrism" is more likely to end up the B-plot to an A-plot where the ways in which the crew relate to one-another are vital to their survival, for instance.
My point was that focusing too much on action and universe ending threats is not something Disco does well if you ask me. It overdid it by constantly 'raising the stakes'.
And I never suggested this be a central story... but more episodes could have been dedicated to flesh out UFP infrastructure, making new ambitious projects (like they did in the 24th century) - only this time that they pan out... what life is like in UFP with all the technology (which would inevitably change how people live).
People say that Trek was never about technology... and yet its a scifi show set in the future that TRIES to portray what life in the future could look like.
I mean, if you're going to do that, might as well do a convincing effort while you're at it... and I have to say Disco writers hadn't done much to show this properly in the 32nd century what with virtually nothing changing on the technology side (which was more akin to 50-80 odd years worth of change... if that).
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I mean, sure, but how would that be meaningfully different from what we saw in "All Is Possible?" More than likely you just end up hitting the same notes that episode did and it'll feel repetitive unless you find some new twist. Which probably results in you constructing an episode where that renegotiation ends up being, again, a secondary plot rather than the main plot.
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Too many of these stories end up with aliens misunderstanding something or making assumptions. I mean, these are highly advanced space faring species... you'd think they'd be able to NOT make such obvious mistakes and cause a problem just for the sake of injecting some drama and action into it.
Earlier Trek had a bit more 'subtlety' to it (although it too increasingly hinged on action) where you could flesh out diplomatic issues without necessarily resorting to violence.
I think Disco could try and focus a tad more on creating more 'peaceful' diplomatic talks with other species and only injecting action if its necessary or critical to the story.
Given how much time has passed though, you'd think these species and living in UFP all this time would have developed better ways of handling things.
Except for the on-screen dialogue in which Paris says: 'Its not anti-matter, its... I don't know what it is'.
Dilithium is generally used in combination with antimatter... and the fake Dauntless didn't give indication it used dilithium.. nothing of the kind was mentioned on-screen when going over the specs for the QS drive when the crew encountered it for the first time.
The only reason VOY crew used Dilithium and Antimatter on their ship for the Quantum Slipstream (in both v1 and 2) was because that's what they had in terms of their own main power source on the ship (along with fusion reactors).
The crew specifically made modifications to VOY to allow travel through slipstream, but they had to do so by using pre-existing power source that was already part of the ship.
And when they developed Version 2, the crew effectively REMADE the drive entirely to accomodate it for their technology and power source. So they developed a a Quantum matrix, used Borg tech and came up with Benemite crystals which ended up resulting in a version of the drive which was FAR faster (the v1 topped out at 300 Ly's per hour. V2 topped out at 10 000 Ly's per minute).
But they still had to hook it up to their own Warp core which used Antimatter and Dilihtium.
Plus, the fact they encountered various other potent power generators which never used dilithium or antimatter (tetryon reactor most notably from the Caretaker array and of course later on they encountered the same tech in a catapult which that alien Tash built - the crew helped repair it - which means they had some knowledge of the technology and that the UFP would be able to make their own version upon VOY's return eventually).
And as we know, the spore drive doesn't use M/AM or Dilithium. In fact, the ship can run just fine with the Warp core turned off and only the Spore Drive being active as was seen.
So, different propulsion technologies don't need Dilithium & M/AM to work.
The Borg were also described to use unknown methods of power generation.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but how exactly do you define 'Federation Earth centrism'?
Was it ever mentioned on screen that SF and UFP were very Earth centric in the early days though?
The main reason we saw so many humans in earlier Trek were mainly budgetary reasons in the real world.
The only other explanation I can think of is that Nog did mention that humans managed to become leaders of an 'interstellar empire' (someone needs to tell Nog UFP is not an empire) in half the time it took the Ferengi.
But Nog's statement could also be interpreted differently. We know that Humans were the catalyst for creating UFP... but we don't know if it was their idea solely.
We also know, Humans proposed the Coalition which united Earth, Vulcan Tellar and Andor in the early days before the UFP was founded... and this coalition then became the United Federation of Planets.
Maybe it was mutually agreed upon to have the UFP capital be Earth itself and Starfleet its exploratory and defensive arm because Humans managed to bridge gaps between alien species that others couldn't.
But we've seen alien SF captains and admirals in earlier Trek series, and Disco even managed to showcase even more aliens in high positions in SF while it was still in the 23rd century.
Though that's SF... in regards to UFP being Earth centric... well, it was UFP capital during that time, and a potential 'target' for some alien schemes in failed attempts to bring UFP down, hence why people would be concerned about it... but it also didn't make sense that UFP didn't have contingency plans in case of the planets are actually destroyed (least of all Earth).
Plus, there were indications that SF Academy was only located on Earth... but when you contrast that to the size of the UFP, realistically, it would probably need to have campuses all over UFP (or on all member planets).
I think 'Earth centric' had more to do with some writers not understanding how large the UFP was or how big space was... so they placed all of the important stuff on Earth and behaved like no other solar system in UFP could do the same thing.
But Trek wasn't the only show to suffer from this problem in the earlier days was it?
Side note: I really do love the dramatic irony that 32nd Century Romulans are in general more pro-Federation than 32nd Century Vulcans.
I would put this down to Vulcans having complicated relationships with species they deem 'emotional'. In a sense, Vulcans are sort of isolationists due to their behavior. It doesn't make them bad at all, but UFP is trying to keep them connected because there is something to be said about being stronger together than apart.
Romulans might be easier to get along with (once you get past all the years of both Romulan and UFP governments telling their people they are each others enemies).
Enterprise-D crew managed to make a few Romulan friends... and in a more recent showing in ST: Nemesis, Romulans did come to ENT-E aid and seemed to make 'friends' of sort.
And they did cooperate during the Dominion War.
I don't feel like season 4 was about rebuilding the federation - we saw a scene in the premiere where Burnham was delivering dilithium, and then Earth rejoined at the end after the crisis of the season was solved. Not really much of a rebuilding arc and not really what I was hoping this season would be.
A lot of the rebuilding happened between S3 & S4. I think we are supposing to interpret it that further rebuilding will happen between S4 & S5. Since they don’t seem all that interested in exploring actual rebuilding, as that involved Federation politics.
That Earth rejoining means the Federation rebuilding arc is complete just further promotes the idea that the Federation is Earth-centric.
It was never going to be about rebuilding the Federation to where it was right before The Burn. But with all the major worlds that we know back like Earth and Ni'Var, and with the Federation having expanded to getting close to half the size it was in First Contact (150 members vs. over 60 and still counting), for all intents and purposes, the Federation is back to the size it probably was when the Discovery left its original timeframe. The TOS Federation being half the size of the TNG Federation, even though it's not canon, sounds about right to me, for some reason.
Basically, the Federation that we know and Burnham knows is back (except for Starfleet Command not being on Earth anymore). The Federation that Vance and Rillak know from History isn't, but it's in a better place than it's ever been during their lifetimes.
Basically, the Federation that we know and Burnham knows is back (except for Starfleet Command not being on Earth anymore). The Federation that Vance and Rillak know from History isn't, but it's in a better place than it's ever been during their lifetimes.
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I’m not certain of the chicken-or-the-egg here, so to speak. I know she mentioned to Wil Wheaton on The Ready Room that she had a play lined up, and I know it’s been ongoing. All that jazz. But I’m not sure there’s been word that the play is the reason she was MIA so much, or if she got so heavily involved in the play as an opportunity resulting from being MIA.
We saw or heard reference to:
- Starfleet beginning delivering vitally-needed dilithium from the nebula last season to numerous worlds ("Kobayashi Maru," "Choose to Live")
- The USS Discovery winning the confidence and respect of the Alshain by delivering dilithium to them and repairing their satellite systems in spite of hostile action ("Kobayashi Maru")
- The re-establishment of Starfleet Academy ("Kobayashi Maru")
- The establishment of new Federation shipyards ("Kobayashi Maru")
- The Federation delivering dilithium to Kaminar ("Kobayashi Maru")
- Councillor Saru giving his opinion that Kaminar, a former UFP world, should use the dilithium to become a spacegoing world again ("Kobayashi Maru")
- The growth of the Federation from 38 Member States in S3 to 59 at the start of S4 ("Kobayashi Maru")
- Federation Headquarters no longer needing to be cloaked for security ("Kobayashi Maru")
- The expansion of scientific and exploratory programs in Starfleet ("Kobayashi Maru")
- The existence of ongoing research on decreasing dilithium dependence ("Kobayashi Maru")
- Including the development of a new spore drive variant ("Kobayashi Maru")
- The Federation gradually build trust again with Ni'Var ("Choose to Live")
- Ni'Var re-enter the Federation ("All is Possible")
- The newest generation of Starfleet recruits learn how to work together across diverse cultures again after a century or more of isolationism on numerous of their worlds ("All is Possible")
- The Federation continue to re-earn its reputation as a benevolent interstellar force by evacuating the Akaali colony in the Radvek Asteroid Belt ("The Examples")
- The Federation re-establish its reputation as a scientific leader through its efforts to research the nature of the DMA ("Anomaly," "The Examples," "Stormy Weather")
- The Federation be accepted as the leader of the ad hoc coalition to deal with the DMA ("... But to Connect," "The Galactic Barrier")
- The Federation persuade a majority of DMA Conference delegations to support diplomacy over a first strike ("... But to Connect")
- The Federation re-earn the trust of United Earth in spite of the U.E. delegation's support for a first strike ("... But to Connect")
- The Federation re-affirm its status as a trustworthy, benevolent actor by its decision to coordinate and to provide active material assistance to the efforts to evacuate the Sol system, even at the cost of the dismantling of Federation Headquarters Station and the death of the Starfleet C-in-C ("Coming Home")
- United Earth chose to re-join the Federation ("Coming Home")
It then begs the question if there are rival versions of the Federations in existence, since the peak of the Federation was 350 members before the Burn and there are only 60 members as of the end of S4; divided equally there should be 5.8 different Federations around. And surely there are former Federation members that don’t want to rejoin and have had their fill.
I think that would make for a really interesting story possibility. What if, say, the former Federation Member States of the Republic of Bajor, the Ferengi Alliance, and the Cardassian Union merged to form the Interstellar Commonwealth, and they look at this revived UFP and say, "Thanks, but we've built a nice democracy here at the Interstellar Commonwealth. We have no need to rejoin"?
I've always wanted the Federation to encounter an even bigger and better Federation and be absorbed into that.
I'm thinking what the other powers could possible be that could be co-existing to the Federation.
United Federation of Planets
Known members: Tellar, Barzan, Kaminar, Trill, plus 56 others
Unknown members: Alpha Centauri? Denobula? Coridan? Ktaria? Betazed? Bolia? Ithenites? Xindi? Klingons?
Emerald Chain
Members: Orion, Andoria, Akaali, Betelgusian, Lurian, Kwejian, Akoszonam, humans. Even though its been fragmented, I'd just keep them around.
Bajoran-Cardassian-Ferengi Alliance
This is a sensible alliance, especially since it will encompass the worlds under Cardassian and Ferengi influence too.
Dominion
Members: Founders, Jem’hadar, Vorta, Karemma, Argrathi, Hunters, Dosi, Ennis, Nol-Ennis, Paradans, Rakhari, Teplan, Wadi, Yadera, Son’a, New Bajorans, some Borg. Perhaps Odo, in reforming the Founders, led to a democratic reformation throughout the rest of the Dominion.
Delta Quadrant Federation
Members: Talaxians, Ocampans, Vidiians, Vaadwuar, Voth, & Kazon, to name a few. Possibly the Borg Co-operative. Whether Species 8472 would be a member is a mystery, being based in fluidic space and known to take humanoid form. Perhaps this can be the larger Federation that absorbed the United Federation of Planets?
Vissian-Devore Alliance
Vissian and Devore ships stood in for the Sphere Builder ships in the Battle of Procyon V, so build off of that. Maybe they are in an alliance with the Krenim, Na’kuhl and Vorgon? Maybe the Triannon too if they managed to recover at all. Basically an alliance based around the Sphere Builders and fallout from the Temporal Wars.
There could be more Federation-like entities around around, like the First Federation and an organization based around the Tzenkethi, but these seem like they would fit the post-Burn environment most.
They've done well setting up an entirely new setting for Star Trek. The characters similarly have undergone fairly drastic changes since their inception back in the before times. Watching earlier seasons feels like an entirely different show, which is a good thing in my opinion. I'm both optimistic and excited for what the show is to bring for future seasons.
good bye!
They could be the evil Federation from the Trek Shorts that attacked Craft;s people.
It's outright stated back in Season 3 that there were Starfleet units acting independently since the burn, of which Deep Space 253 was one example. I'm hoping that Season 5 will explore this further. Maybe an episode that is a take on Heart of Darkness/apocalypse now where a rogue starfleet group, calling themselves 'The V'draysh' are refusing to rejoin, have conquered some pre-warp civilisations and Discovery has to take Admiral Vance on a mission to stop them.
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