Micheal Jackson has died

[Tulaberry whine]

Of course, these are also precisely the reasons why somebody would be prepared to make false sexual abuse accusations against a rich and powerful person.

Moreover, whether the people involved are rich and famous or not, time and time again false allegations are much more damaging to the accused than the accuser. Especially when children are involved.

This is the type of reasoning I don't understand. First, there is the assumption that all unproven allegations are false.

I did not make any such assertion or assumption.

I also strongly disagree that it is the accused who is damaged when charges are considered unfounded. How? They go on living their lives, while the one making the allegations is now considered a liar by their peers and an unreliable witness in future legal cases.

I think you're massively downplaying the impact a false abuse allegation has. Usually careers, families, relationships and reputations are in tatters. And it is rarely a case of simply getting on with their lives afterwards, even false allegations haunt people for the rest of their lives.

Sexual abuse is rarely "proven" in court unless there were pictures. People can go to prison for life for having child porn on their computer, but have a real child claim they were touched and you will almost never see a conviction.

This is because children are considered easily manipulated, an idea was planted in their heads, an adult around them was using them to try to get back at another adult, etc. If a period of time lapsed between the alleged event and the actual charge, it can be said that it must not have been very important or the child would have told someone right away, or that the story had changed over the months/years.

There is a difference between an unproven allegation and a false allegation. It's just hard to recognize this in any given case.

While I accept and agree to a point with what you're saying, this is all getting rather off topic and I'm not really interested into getting into a debate about the 'rights' and 'wrongs' of how we handle child sexual abuse allegations - not something I really want to dwell on on a Star Trek BBS.

Suffice to say, if I remember correctly the child at the centre of the initial Michael Jackson abuse allegations refused to testify. In the second case Jackson was found not guilty on all charges. Beyond that, nobody knows what happened, but you're entitled to your opinion of the man ...

 

[Dusty Ayres]

At least MTV is doing a classy thing and started playing Michael Jackson videos almost immediately upon the news of his death. (Yes, they're ACTUALLY playing music videos!) Let''s face it, he made MTV.

Same thing with MuchMusic in Canada, including a tribute show with tons of call-ins from fans, and fans gathering outside the MuchMusic headquarters in Toronto.

 

[msbae]

Bill Carr, Amazon's vice president of music and video, said Friday that once the world learned that the pop icon had died Thursday, the Web site sold out within minutes all CDs by Michael Jackson and by the Jackson 5 — the group Jackson and his four older brothers formed out of Gary, Ind., in the late '60s.

Sixty percent of Amazon's CD orders Thursday were for Michael Jackson music, something Carr called "stunning." He said he'd "never seen anything like this" before at Amazon after the death of a pop culture icon.

As of Friday afternoon, Jackson's albums accounted for all 10 of Amazon's "Bestsellers in Music" list, with the 25th anniversary edition of the celebrated "Thriller" album taking the top spot.

Meanwhile, Barnes and Noble's Web site and retail stores are currently sold out of most Jackson CDs, DVDs and books, Chief Merchandising Officer Jaime Carey said. Like Amazon, its 10 bestselling CDs were Jackson titles.

Both companies said they were working to get the products back in stock.

Apple Inc. would not describe the level of demand for Jackson's music at its iTunes online store, but his dominance of iTunes' top-seller lists Friday speaks for itself.

Around the time of Jackson's death, only one of his albums ranked in the top 100 on iTunes in the United States. By Friday morning, eight of the top 10 albums were Jackson's. An "Essential" collection of Jackson's songs compiled by Apple's iTunes music team was the top-selling album, followed by "Thriller."

Five of Jackson's singles made it to iTunes' list of most-purchased tracks — "Man in the Mirror," "Thriller," "The Way You Make Me Feel," "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough," and "Smooth Criminal" — in what may be one of the best barometers to gauge his most popular songs.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090626/ap_on_en_mu/us_michael_jackson_music_sales

All hail the King of Pop.

Why the Hell are Billie Jean, Bad and Beat It not on iTunes most downloaded lists? Seriously, WTF?

 

[Amaris]

^ I did.

Of course, I did it before he died. When I first saw the headline news, I watched for a while, and then started wondering what Michael Jackson music I actually owned. I knew I had my Thriller LP album and CD, so I went on Amazon and found "Michael Jackson Number Ones". I purchased it right there, because I was concerned that if he should pass (and I hoped he wouldn't), I would miss out on the chance to own some of his greatest music for myself. About an hour later, they announced that he had died.

J.

 

[Gryffindorian]

Who could blame these retailers for trying to profit from celebrities' deaths? I mean, it's the consumers who want to make the purchase; it's supply and demand, simple economics. If Michael were still alive today, I doubt Amazon.com or Barnes & Noble would make tens of millions of dollars (more than they normally made this time of the year) in MJ-related merchandise sales. It just seems so ... phony. I wish those businesses would at least contribute a portion of their profits to some charitable causes, especially children's charities.

Everyone seems to have brought some really good points. I agree with what kythe said about the difference between unproven and false allegations. Although I'm not convinced that MJ was a child molester, there was no way to prove or disprove the claims made by those children. And the fact that they received some kind of compensation only made it look like "hush money."

Like Princess Diana and other celebs, Michael was a flawed human being. As far as Lisa Marie trying to "help" or save him, this would've been next to impossible to accomplish if Michael didn't acknowledge his problem or problems. What if he was oblivious to them? What if he was in denial? It's not like he was an alcoholic or a drug addict. When LM said "self-destructive behaviors," was she referring to MJ's cosmetic surgeries (bad self-esteem or image)? Was she talking about his lack of restraint in terms of how he spent his money (insecurity, irresponsibility)? MJ definitely had a different mindset from most regular adults his age based on his childhood-celebrity status and his troubled upbringing. Personally, I don't believe the saying, "People are incapable of change" because people can and do change, for better or worse. Change has to come from within. There was not a thing Lisa Marie could've done for him.

 

[NileQT87]

Similarly, there were people who tried to get Elvis to change. Ultimately, they failed.

Lisa certainly shouldn't blame herself for leaving him, but as a human being, she will always feel that nagging 'what if?'. 'What if I had gotten through?' 'What if I had saved him/her?' 'What if I had said this or that?' 'What if I had been more forceful?'

The people around Marilyn Monroe, John Belushi, Judy Garland or any number of other ill-fated celebrities have probably thought the same things. 'What could I have done?' I mean, I've read Mickey Rooney interviews where he rails against the people around Judy. It's the same all over.

Unfortunately for Lisa, she's been in the middle of two of the biggest examples of it in the history of pop-culture (TWICE!) and it's been personal both times. She couldn't save her father (she's said some very sad things regarding trying to take care of him even as a tiny child--at school, she even wrote: "I wish my mother and father don't die.") and she couldn't save Michael from himself either. While she never could have saved her father, she tried to stop it from happening again to Michael. I can see how she might feel like a failure.

And for the record, the fact that she invoked the day of her father's death (or even her father at all--she avoids the topic of him most of the time) very blatantly there and compared the footage of Michael's death (the ambulances, the gates!!!, the crowds of mourners, etc...--not to mention the inappropriate paparazzi photos of Elvis in his coffin and Michael in the ambulance) to what happened on that day is VERY, VERY rare for her. On Elvis By The Presleys, she actually told the camera person to shut off the camera when she had to discuss the day of his death. She could barely even talk about it and was close to tears. She HATES bringing up that day and she almost always refuses to talk about it in interviews. It's the topic that is always off-limits. The fact that she brought it up is very significant. She wouldn't have done it if she was truly as 'indifferent' to Michael as she had tried to become. She flips out when the media talks about her weight by bringing up her father (especially when she was pregnant). People she loves dying is clearly a huge issue for her (and she has even brought up Vernon and Minnie Mae's deaths shortly after her father's as other examples of her trouble with losing loved ones).

Believe me, I've been reading her comments for years. This is very telling of her issues coming back up again.

As for the media... In the infamous words of Col. Parker: "Business as usual."

 

[Dick Whitman]

It seems the man had to die so the music could be re-embraced by the general public.

I had read an article only a month ago about the comeback plans. About merchandising, also Thriller casino. I was thinking at that time that the success of these things was dependent on distancing from Michael himself. Or at least his current image and persona.

I know for myself I thought of buying his 1 hits Cd in recent months and was almost embarrassed to be seen supporting him. Beyond the accusations, the way he threw away his millions was sickening.

 

[NileQT87]

That happens. When the person dies, their career is rebooted because people no longer are remembering the current tabloid garbage that means nothing, but what the figure actually means to the world in the sense of history.

At this point, his death is actually a career rehabilitation move. The tragedy is, it took his death to do it.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Its very ironic. I had been thinking a lot about Elvis recently. I have always been a fan. But recently there had been a resurgence of interest. Reading about him in addition to listening to his music and watching his films. In particular I have been thinking about his final years and wondering if somehow things could have been turned around for him.

 

[NileQT87]

What I've heard is that Michael is projected to sell about 4-5 million records by Thursday. That's more than he sold in the last decade.

For comparison's sake, Elvis sold 10 million records in the first 24 hours (though in a much different sales climate) and he got his first posthumous #1 record (Moody Blue). Of course, 25 years later, he'd get another posthumous #1 with A Little Less Conversation (sadly emasculated and inferior to the original--the coolest part of the song is the "aaah!").

It'll be interesting if Michael gets any posthumous hits now (likely, actually).

It'll be particularly interesting if the estate is able to repurchase Neverland Ranch. With this media blitz and sales boom, his debts will likely be paid off.

Interesting fact: Elvis had only $100 in his savings account and about $1 million left when he died (sound familiar?). Though Elvis' loss of money was largely because he had a habit of giving away practically everything he had to others (gifts and charity). When he needed money, he did another tour. In fact, that's the real reason that Graceland became a tourist attraction. In order to save the estate from being taken by the state, Priscilla (who actually was left with nothing in Elvis' will--it was all left to Vernon and Minnie Mae and when they died, it was Lisa Marie's when she got to age 25--Priscilla only got control because of being Lisa's guardian until then because of Vernon's will) made it into a museum. Funny fact is that Aunt Delta (who was known for being a crazy drunk) was still living there when the tours started and was sometimes seen walking the grounds in her night clothes. Some of the early tour guides included Elvis' cousin. Vernon's brother, Vester, was the security at the gate for decades (largely known for telling stories to fans). Graceland is the most visited home in the United States after the White House. Priscilla is the one who made the business Elvis' estate is today.

That's one way for the Jackson estate to get out of debt. Though Neverland Ranch suffers from all of Michael's allegation history. Ultimately, while Michael is a huge celebrity, he'll never reach the status of Elvis or the Beatles. He's certainly one of the biggest, though.

 

[TedShatner10]

I honestly believe the plastic surgeons who operated on Michael Jackson should be charged with criminal malpractice for all those years of highly damaging and unnecessary proceedures that turned the King of Pop into one of those humanoid reptiles that David Ike rants about.

 

[Rincewiend]

Sacha Baron Cohen is a classy guy:

The filmmakers behind "Bruno" have decided to delete a scene involving La Toya Jackson following her brother's death.

Universal Pictures, which is releasing the comedy, said the decision came "out of respect for the Jackson family."

The moment was first cut out of the movie's Los Angeles premiere Thursday night, which took place just hours after the Michael Jackson's death at age 50.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/26/bruno-cuts-scene-mocking-_n_221549.html

I have the Thriller and Bad rereleases on CD as well as The Ultimate Collection...

 

[NileQT87]

Remember what I was saying about Michael's estate probably planning to copy Graceland with Neverland Ranch (boy, I could see this one coming) and make it into a museum to help pay off the debts...? Well, to top it off, it was Michael's wish to be buried on the property (you need a special grave site permit).

http://www.mirror.co.uk/celebs/news...-buried-at-neverland-mansion-115875-21476865/

In light of the conversation about his death that he had with Lisa Marie...

Though it is probably the most appropriate burial place for him.

 

[Keith1701]

I miss Farrah.

Same here!!!

 

[msbae]

2nd autopsy performed at the Jackson family's request...

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...pleted-at-the-request-of-jacksons-family.html

LAPD Questions Jackson Cardiologist

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/MichaelJackson/story?id=7945488&page=1

Spokeswoman: doctor not suspect in Jackson death

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090628/D993N3P80.html

 

[Trekker4747]

He's been cut into almost as many times dead as he was alive.

 

[Thrall]

Heard a good joke the other day:

When Farrah Fawcett died she went to Heaven and God granted her one wish. "I want all the little children of the world to be safe". So then God killed Micheal Jackson.

 

[Trekker4747]

Heard a good joke the other day:

When Farrah Fawcett died she went to Heaven and God granted her one wish. "I want all the little children of the world to be safe". So then God killed Micheal Jackson.

At least the third time that "joke" has been said in the various MJ threads across the board.

It's neither funny, good or "a joke."

 

[Thrall]

At least the third time that "joke" has been said in the various MJ threads across the board.

Damn. That's what I get for being late to the party.

It's neither funny, good or "a joke."

Well, maybe not to MJ fans. But they think he's not a kiddie-rapist. I bet they think OJ was innocent too. Personally, I wish he had ODed about 30 years ago, before he touched his first victim. He'd be better remembered and his victim wouldn't have been a victim.

 

[Trekker4747]

At least the third time that "joke" has been said in the various MJ threads across the board.

Damn. That's what I get for being late to the party.

It's neither funny, good or "a joke."

Well, maybe not to MJ fans. But they think he's not a kiddie-rapist. I bet they think OJ was innocent too. Personally, I wish he had ODed about 30 years ago, before he touched his first victim. He'd be better remembered and his victim wouldn't have been a victim.

There's monumental evidence that OJ was not innocent. How he got off was nothing more than a combination of jurty nullification and incompetnece on both the parts of the prosecution and police.

There's no evidence Michael did anything wrong with a child -other than the claims of a few who were more likely trying to cash-in on him.

As I said, the man loved children in a very platonic sense. He has no 'real childhood' himself and he wanted to do as much as he could to give some children the life he never had and the life some children are unable to have as well. He may also have done things that a grown man probably shouldn't do with a child -but nothing sexual, just things that "look bad" or raise an eyebrow.

Find me a pair of a specific child's underwear with Jackson's semen stain on it and I'll grant you there's an OJ thing going on here. As it is, we've only the words of a few to make the claims against Jackson in this matter and juries and courts are very, very, harsh on people who do anything even remotely wrong with a child. Obviously the jurors and juries who presided over Jackson's case(es) felt there wasn't enough evidence to suggest Jackson did anything wrong.

But, go ahead, keep playing the OJ card. Because we know that a couple young boy's claims. Elizabeth Taylor helself said nothing happened during these sleepovers.

So go ahead, keep playing that card.