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MeTV's SuperSci-Fi Saturday Night

Hmmm...maybe a general tally for purposes of determining a long-term percantage.

Counting two-parters as a single story, starting with the second pilot:

Cure-related: 2
Just schlepping around: 2

As I recall, there'll be a lot more of the latter than the former in the long term.
 
We could count the pilot in the "cure-related" category, since David and Elaina were researching the metamorphosis with an eye toward finding a way to reverse it. So that'd make it 3 to 2 so far.
 
Hmmm...maybe a general tally for purposes of determining a long-term percantage.

Counting two-parters as a single story, starting with the second pilot:

Cure-related: 2
Just schlepping around: 2

As I recall, there'll be a lot more of the latter than the former in the long term.

It made sense that there would not be so many cure-seeking episodes, since his condition is so rare, one would not expect a great number of researchers and/or facilities existing that would be able to even understand the problem.

Offhand, he seeks a cure or a way to at least control the problem (post pilots) in:

Season 1
"The Beast Within"
"747"
(next weekend's episode)
"Life and Death"
"Earthquakes Happen"


Season 2
"Married"
"Rainbow's End"
"Another Path"
"Killer Instinct"
"A Solitary Place"
(technically not a cure episode, but Banner--after one failed cure attempt after another, moves to the forest in the hope of avoid emotional triggers for the metamorphosis. The problem with that is his own mind, since the series established his own dreams of multiple personal tragedies can trigger a Hulk-Out).
"The Disciple" (sequel to "Another Path").
"Kindred Spirits"

Season 3
I'm not certain any of this season's episodes had Banner seeking to cure or control the Hulk problem.

Season 4
"Dark Side"
"The First, Part 1"
"The First, Part 2"


Season 5
From the episode I remember, no cure or control scripts were produced.

So, seasons 1 and 2 featured a good amount of cure plots, while 3 moved into the Kimble/Fugitive human drama stories more than anything else. Although the reaming season and a half only used three cure stories (season 4), they were among the most dramatic of any involving a cure/control.
 
We could count the pilot in the "cure-related" category, since David and Elaina were researching the metamorphosis with an eye toward finding a way to reverse it. So that'd make it 3 to 2 so far.
I dunno...the pilot seems like it should be the exception to such lists/tallies, which are really seeking to explore the series formula that gets going after the pilot establishes the basic premise.

"747" (next weekend's episode)
Two weeks from now...next weekend is "Terror in Times Square".
 
Doesn't work. The mass of a single paper clip is equivalent to a bit more energy than was released in the bombing of Nagasaki. The amount of energy necessary to convert into hundreds of kilograms of mass would be hundreds of thousands of times greater. The Hulk would blow up an entire city every time he changed back to Banner. And there's no way the medical device David used to expose himself to gamma could possibly have dosed him with more energy than a multi-megaton nuclear bomb.

And there's no way that the mass could be "stored inside" in the form of energy. It's the other way around -- all that energy is stored in the form of mass.
I do know this. No way except in the comics--we have to suspend disbelief and believe that the Hulk is just such a battery for titanic amounts of energy, which is not released to the environment on transformation.
 
"Terror in Times Square"--

Jack McGee--also in New York, is convinced that the Hulk is--as he puts it--" the biggest knock-down, drag-out five star final that i've ever latched onto." This plays into his reasoning (later expanded) as explained to the bandaged Banner in the second part of "Mystery Man" from March 1979.

This episode also establishes that he's been chasing Hulk leads for six months. So, that implies six at least since the time leading to the start of "Death in the Family," Either way, the Banner saga is only a half year old at this point.

David--now as David Blake--is in New York still seeking a cure. This time, he's seeking the help of a Dr. Everett Lewis of the Genetics Research Unit (not confirmed if that's an independent facility, or part of a hospital group). He also tells Carol Abrams that he "spent several years in the Medical Corps." Not sure if this is a reference to his military background, or not.

At episode's end, David tells Carol Abrams that he might head to California (again??), so it would seem he's strangely giving up on Dr. Everett.

The footage of Ferrigno Hulking around in times square was one of the most lasting legacies from the series, as it was used frequently not only to promote this episode, but various stills were used in innumerable magazines, national and local TV guides covering the series. Like Superman the Movie (still months away), the image of a :living" comic character doing his thing in the most famous city in the world made for unforgettable imagery of not only 1970s media, but comic adaptations overall.

Guest stars--

Baddie Jason Laird was brought to life by veteran Robert Alda (Alan's late father). Alda was on a CBS/ Marvel TV roll in the spring of 1978; after this March 31st episode of TIH, he followed it up as would be-terrorist/blackmailer Mr. White in "The Deadly Dust," a two-parter of The Amazing Spider-Man, which aired on April 5 & 12, 1978. The episode also guest starred JoAnna Cameron--at the time, known to legions of kids as Filmation's live action heroine Isis.

That fall, Alda was not through facing superheroes on CBS, as he would appear in "Formicida," an episode from Wonder Woman's third and final season.

Jack Kruschen (Norman Abrams) had a long, distinguished career as a character actor, but to fantasy TV--and ME-TV fans, he's remembered as Eivol Ekdal, partner to Anne Baxter's Zelda in the early Batman stories, "Zelda the Great" / "A Death Worse Than Fate."

Careful observers took note of the movie theater marquee seen as David is "lonely man-ing" at the end of the episode. It was displaying the title of one of the many films of "Bruce Li" to shamelessly milk the legacy of Bruce Lee. The title is obscured by a bus lane sign, and his credits do not match up with what is visible, but his name is clear.
 
"Terror in Times Square" is a bit of a clunky episode in some ways, with exposition handled in a very contrived fashion -- Leo is constantly giving "As you know, Bob" dialogue to set up the plot, and it's very convenient that he and Norm just happen to write down precisely where and when they intend to commit premeditated murder, so that David can find out. Still, it's got a lot of charm in the performances, a good cast including Robert Alda and Jack Kruschen, and excellent music by Joe Harnell (building on thematic material from "The Final Round" and opening with a jaunty, Broadwayesque theme for New York City itself, which I think Harnell reused on at least one other show).

And the Hulk's run through Times Square and Park Avenue is certainly memorable, as is the hilarious set piece of a Hulk-out induced by Manhattan traffic. I mean, the streets the Hulk runs through are oddly empty, considering that traffic was jam-packed just moments before, and I have to wonder why the cops don't show up in response to the Hulk's rampage (although I checked, and apparently the NYPD substation that's now right on Times Square didn't open until 1993). And one could've wished for a little more property damage along the way; I know they wouldn't have had permission to do any real damage to Times Square, but at least the Hulk could've tipped over a hot dog cart or something along the way. (The shot of him smashing the newsstand was apparently on the backlot, though the reverse angle right afterward was the start of the location shoot.) But it's just neat to see the use of real location work instead of California doubling. (Although that pretty clearly wasn't Bill Bixby doing the Lonely Man walk away from the camera at the end there; the double's hair was too long in back. I guess they only flew Ferrigno out to NYC.) And I feel sorry for Ferrigno, since there were piles of snow on the sidewalk in some shots. He had to run through the streets shirtless in winter!

The opening scene with McGee and his friend is interesting, since it mentions Hulk sightings in cities like Chicago and St. Louis, which don't correspond to any episodes so far. So there are some unchronicled Hulk-outs, unless these are being shown out of production order.

One detail that bugs me: The cab driver couldn't have failed to realize that his passenger turned into the Hulk, so why didn't he tell anyone about it? You'd think that, with the publicity of the Hulk's rampage, the cabbie would've come forward to sell his story to the papers, or at least to alert the police. But McGee goes another year before figuring out that someone transforms into the Hulk.

Oh, by the way, this episode barely counts toward the tally of episodes where David is seeking a cure, because there's a passing reference to him trying to track down a genetics expert, but it has no bearing on the plot.
 
The Incredible Hulk
"Terror in Times Square"
Originally aired Mar. 31, 1978

This episode stands out as being the source of the photo of the Hulk running through Times Square that comes into play in later episodes, though we don't see it being taken.

various stills were used in innumerable magazines, national and local TV guides covering the series
That, too!

Anyway, McGee gets some early screen time, with an unseen between-episodes Hulk sighting setting up why he happens to be in the Big Apple at the same time as David.

So this week it's David Blake--David doesn't get any awards for originality after using David Blaine last week. (Though maybe he should have used Blaine in this episode, given how shoes and socks magically appear on his feet in the alley after his first Hulk-Out.)

So...does the teeny tiny phone call that establishes why David's in New York qualify this as a cure-related episode? It definitely stretches the definition, as it doesn't factor into the main plot at all. (Noting the name Dr. Everett Lewis in the unlikely event that it gets referenced again.) At least they gave us a better reason for his being in NY than they did for his walk through Beverly Hills.

This definitely qualifies as an undercover doctor episode with the tutoring angle that gives David access to a stethoscope for safe-cracking. They're pushing credibility a bit having David be so savvy about things like gathering evidence to expose drug operations.

This episode reminds me more than a little of "The Final Round"...takes place in a major East Coast city, David runs afoul of a drug-related criminal operation (complete with a scene of David eavesdropping through a door), McGee's on the scene to see the creature in person after the second Hulk-Out....

There's also a flirtatious but not out-and-and out romantic angle with the main female guest star, as in "The Beast Within."

The protection racket boss was actually a pretty nice guy to David at first...not the usual suspicious on first sight type...it's too bad for David that Norm and Uncle Leo chose this week to stand up to him. And note how David's lack of background plays a role in the plot by drawing suspicion to him later.

(And how can one of those names not remind me of Seinfeld?)

Got a good laugh when the hood told David "You really don't wanna make me angry." So early and the show's already being winky-nudgy about the famous title sequence catchphrase. Trying to get away from the thugs was an unusually risky move on David's part, but he was trying to trade in a certain Hulk-Out for the desperate chance to avoid one.

First Hulk-Out: -26:28...about a minute and a half sooner than "The Beast Within," but still the better part of six minutes later than the notably early example in "The Final Round."

David should have just stuck around until Norm and Uncle Leo came to, or at least left them a note.

If David had to get to Park Avenue faster than he could on foot, maybe he should have tried the subway. But we get what has to be the most comical excuse for a Hulk-Out to date, rivaling the later payphone gag. David's such an annoying backseat driver that the cabbie should have Hulked Out on him!

Second Hulk-Out: -9:05--The earliest yet in an hour-long episode. Guess they had to allow some time for the money shots of Ferrigno running through Times Square. And in case you couldn't tell that this show was made in the late '70s, there's some very conspicuous Saturday Night Fever product placement for posterity.

David's back to the beige jacket in this one. The way he specifically mentions schlepping back to California could support my theory about the production order of the episodes from "The Beast Within"...which takes place in a California location that's maybe supposed to actually be California, and has David referencing that he'd recently been in NYC.

And that's so obviously not the back of Bixby's head that it took me out of the Lonely Man scene.

He also tells Carol Abrams that he "spent several years in the Medical Corps." Not sure if this is a reference to his military background, or not.
Ah, good catch! I heard it but it didn't click. Either he spent time in the military or he likes to use it as a cover story.

since it mentions Hulk sightings in cities like Chicago and St. Louis, which don't correspond to any episodes so far.
Damn, another thing I should have caught--I was a bit distracted while this one was running. IIRC, there's an episode set in Chicago that takes place at the National Register's main office, but I don't think it's coming up this season.

Oh, by the way, this episode barely counts toward the tally of episodes where David is seeking a cure, because there's a passing reference to him trying to track down a genetics expert, but it has no bearing on the plot.
OK, I guess that's another grudging vote for counting this as a cure-related episode.
 
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So...does the teeny tiny phone call that establishes why David's in New York qualify this as a cure-related episode? It definitely stretches the definition, as it doesn't factor into the main plot at all. (Noting the name Dr. Everett Lewis in the unlikely event that it gets referenced again.) At least they gave us a better reason for his being in NY than they did for his walk through Beverly Hills.

It is cure-related because it simply points out that he's still seeking one, and not just hanging around location of the week. Mentioning Dr. Everett and the facility were specific details serving that purpose, even if he never met Everett.


There's also a flirtatious but not out-and-and out romantic angle with the main female guest star, as in "The Beast Within."

...and there will be more of that to come from Love 'em and Leave 'em Banner. Women from one end of the country to the other find him irresistible.

If David had to get to Park Avenue faster than he could on foot, maybe he should have tried the subway.

...so, he would be in Hulk mode for the rest of the episode!


And in case you couldn't tell that this show was made in the late '70s, there's some very conspicuous Saturday Night Fever product placement for posterity.

Much like that theater marquee with the Bruce Lee ripoff / grave-robbing movies, which had reached their deserved nadir by the end of the decade.

David's back to the beige jacket in this one. The way he specifically mentions schlepping back to California could support my theory about the production order of the episodes from "The Beast Within"...which takes place in a California location that's maybe supposed to actually be California, and has David referencing that he'd recently been in NYC.

Perhaps.

Ah, good catch! I heard it but it didn't click. Either he spent time in the military or he likes to use it as a cover story.

Either way, its a solid cover for anyone wondering why he knows so much for a "regular" guy.

Damn, another thing I should have caught--I was a bit distracted while this one was running. IIRC, there's an episode set in Chicago that takes place at the National Register's main office, but I don't think it's coming up this season.

Ah! That might be a season three episode.
 
IIRC, there's an episode set in Chicago that takes place at the National Register's main office, but I don't think it's coming up this season.

Oh, the Register's based in Chicago? I was wondering about that here, since I would've assumed it was based in NYC, so I was puzzled that the guy McGee was talking to seemed to work for a different news outlet. (Or something. It wasn't really explained who he was.)
 
Had to look it up--The episode in question in "Stop the Presses"--Season 2, episode 9, aired Nov. 24, 1978. If you go down far enough on the IMDb page, a user review confirms the Chicago setting (which I wasn't 100 percent sure about offhand).

ETA: On the subject of this episode potentially having aired out of production order...it has a likely reason for the delay: having to wait for the opportunity to get the location footage of Ferrigno in Times Square.
 
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By the way, we were talking earlier in the thread about the early Hulk comics and how the nature and cause of the Hulk transformations evolved, so when I happened across Essential Hulk Vol. 1 at the library, I decided to check it out. It includes the original 6-issue Hulk comic and the first several dozen chapters of the Tales to Astonish serial, though it skips over the Avengers and FF installments in between that are pretty crucial to the Hulk's early narrative (although fortunately I read those FF issues fairly recently). It's pretty wild to see how Lee and Kirby (and Ditko and the other ToA artists) were pretty much throwing things at the wall and constantly retooling their concepts in hopes of finding a formula that worked. The first two issues were interesting, with the Hulk as more of a proto-villain with a desire for power and conquest, much more of a Mr. Hyde to Banner's Jekyll. But he was a threat that never really materialized, because Banner kept returning at sunrise and using his science brains to save the day. Then they tried to make the Hulk a mindless slave of Rick Jones, sort of his personal genie, but that lasted about one issue, and then they established the idea that the Hulk had Banner's intelligence but was more aggressive and uncaring, and that he could use the machine to change back and forth at will, as we discussed earlier in the thread.

Then that sort of vaguely faded into the thing where the change in both directions was triggered by extremes of exertion and adrenaline, which then got abruptly reversed without explanation into the familiar pattern where the Hulk reverts to Banner when he sleeps or calms down. And it was never really explained or justified how the Hulk changed from "intelligent but harsh" to "his clouded brain struggles to think" and "Hulk smash." There were actually two times in the ToA serial where Banner becomes the Hulk with his full intelligence, then is trapped in Hulk form for a long time and steadily gets dumber, becoming the classic broken-English-speaking Hulk who sees "puny Banner" as a different person.

Although I noted that the first time we got the dumb Hulk was in the same storyline that introduced the Leader, who was gamma-mutated to have a big giant head and a superior intellect. So I wonder if Lee decided to make the Hulk dumber to amplify the contrast with the Leader, brawn vs. brain.

It's also bizarre how many times Ross and Talbot discovered Banner shirtless and dazed after a Hulk rampage and never made the connection. They had to have wondered why he was constantly taking his shirt off. Although I'm surprised at just how early in the series we had them find out that Bruce was the Hulk. I thought that had come much later. Still, it got pretty repetitive and formulaic toward the end of the volume, with Ross and Talbot realizing the Hulk was a hero one issue and then abruptly hating and hunting him as a menace again by the next. I don't think I'm interested in reading any further.
 
Well, glad you got a little pop culture out of it. It's even more illuminating reading the letters pages dealing with some of these early Hulk appearances, where readers tended to point out gaps and inconsistencies in the Hulk's mannerisms and transformations. I honestly get the impression that Stan and company were just sometimes failing to remember what they'd previously done with the character, given the burgeoning stable of creations that they had to deal with. It does invite some attempts at head canon to fill in the gaps, though.

*******

To further the subject of the early TV episodes perhaps making more sense in an order other than that in which they aired...glancing at the list of episodes aired so far, just shuffling "Terror in Times Squre" to fall before "The Beast Within" makes a lot more sense.

In "Death in the Family", he's still in California, as in the pilot.

McGee's mentions of unchronicled Hulk sightings in St. Louis and Chicago could correspond to David traveling from CA to the East Coast in the gap between "Death in the Family" and "The Final Round".

IIRC, it was in "The Final Round" that David said he had some business in Pittsburgh. We haven't seen anything regarding that yet.

Then put "Terror in Times Square" between "The Final Round" and "The Beast Within"...David is already schlepping around the East Coast, but decides at the end of "Terror" to go back to California...and that takes us to the (not specifically identified) L.A. Zoo in "The Beast Within"...followed by David's inexplicable nighttime stroll through Beverly Hills in "Of Guilt, Models, and Murder".

Next week is "747", so it'll be interesting to see how David's trip in a jet might factor into things. Perhaps it would fit best following "Terror", as it could deal with David hopping coasts...and the episode after that takes place in Vegas...doesn't seem like he'd need a jet to get from L.A. to Vegas.

I have to think that somewhere out there on the Interwebs, there must be a group of dedicated Hulkophiles who've already worked these things out, and we're just reinventing the wheel here....
 
I honestly get the impression that Stan and company were just sometimes failing to remember what they'd previously done with the character, given the burgeoning stable of creations that they had to deal with.

What? Forget things about their creation Bob Banner? Err, I mean Peter Palmer? Err...

In "Death in the Family", he's still in California, as in the pilot.

McGee's mentions of unchronicled Hulk sightings in St. Louis and Chicago could correspond to David traveling from CA to the East Coast in the gap between "Death in the Family" and "The Final Round".

IIRC, it was in "The Final Round" that David said he had some business in Pittsburgh. We haven't seen anything regarding that yet.

Then put "Terror in Times Square" between "The Final Round" and "The Beast Within"...David is already schlepping around the East Coast, but decides at the end of "Terror" to go back to California...and that takes us to the (not specifically identified) L.A. Zoo in "The Beast Within"...followed by David's inexplicable nighttime stroll through Beverly Hills in "Of Guilt, Models, and Murder".

Sounds reasonable... except that it would mean the only episodes set in that first 6-month span of the Hulk's career would be "A Death in the Family" and "Final Round." That's a pretty big gap.
 
Maybe...perhaps David's attempt at a cure in "Death in the Family" took for a while before he changed again (in St. Louis?). And it gives David time to have worked his way from coast to coast presumably by hitchhiking and working odd jobs.

Meanwhile, I did a Google search, and the first result turned up a strange parallel universe where people post on message boards about The Incredible Hulk instead of Star Trek: Link.

Seems like the list in the OP was a tentative work, but it does appear that "Terror" was an earlier episode and I wasn't the first to notice it...and if you go in a couple of pages, somebody posts that Kenneth Johnson affirms that "The Final Round" was made before "Terror", contrary to the OP's list, which makes more sense because David mentions going to California at the end of "Terror".

It seems that things get a lot more complicated, with some episodes having been aired in different seasons from those in which they were produced. I'm making a copy of that list, though, to see how it holds up compared to airdate order.
 
My guess is that Banner is a hobo. He probably took a lot of trains

One detail that bugs me: The cab driver couldn't have failed to realize that his passenger turned into the Hulk, so why didn't he tell anyone about it? .

Not everyone read McGee's paper.

My guess is that he's either in Bellvue or fell over dead with heart failure.

This is also the first time we ever saw the Hulk hurt in any way.

You better watch those forklifts.
http://ehsdailyadvisor.blr.com/2010/04/5-deadly-forklift-dangers/
http://www.hsssearch.co.uk/orgfiles/ZORGF000011/HSS/Images/Crushed worker.jpg

Forklifts are far more heavy than they look.

The Hulk is lucky he still has that leg.
 
He got shot in the pilot...and also hurt his hand breaking out of the pressure chamber.

And now that you mention it...I don't think we ever did see David hop a train.
 
Not everyone read McGee's paper.

Not my point. It's not about what the cabbie knows, it's about what McGee knows. Whether the cabbie has heard of the Hulk or not, he would have to realize that the angry man in the back of his cab turned into a large green monster. He'd probably report that to the police or to his employers, in order to explain the damage. And so McGee would be able to find out about the cabbie's report and realize that there was a man who turned into the Hulk.

My guess is that he's either in Bellvue or fell over dead with heart failure.

There were several hundred other eyewitnesses to corroborate the Hulk's presence. Not to mention the police APB mentioned in earlier episodes, and (going by viewing order) the very public manhunt for the Hulk in "Of Guilt, Models, and Murder." So the fact that the Hulk exists is fairly widely accepted, or at least considered a valid enough possibility that someone wouldn't be institutionalized just for reporting it.

As for the latter possibility, that's too dark for this show, since it would mean the Hulk was responsible for a death.


The Hulk is lucky he still has that leg.

The Hulk heals rapidly. As Mixer said, he was shot in the pilot and healed pretty quickly; and we'll see later episodes where Hulking out helps David recover from much more severe injuries.


By the way, I think that this episode features what's nominally the fastest metamorphosis yet. When the thugs tossed David behind those crates, we went to the usual transformation sequence for a bit, but then cut to the thugs starting over to the crates to continue their beating, suggesting that less time had passed in-story than in actuality. After all, they wouldn't have had much reason to just stand there waiting before going after him. So it's implied that his change was almost instantaneous there.
 
and we'll see later episodes where Hulking out helps David recover from much more severe injuries.
That reminds me of something. You're referring at least in part to the episode in which David's legs are temporarily paralyzed, correct? We were discussing previously whether or not David would deliberately trigger a transformation. Now I'm going on pretty vague memory, but wasn't there a beat in that episode, after his first Hulk-Out caused some dramatic improvement in his condition, in which he seemed to consider doing something to make himself change again?

ETA: OK, I peaked ahead--Season 4, ep. 14, "The Harder They Fall"...there's a scene with a doctor that definitely gets across the point of what's happening with David, but skipping around the scenes after that, I didn't see any scenes where he seemed to consider doing anything to trigger a change.

They totally glossed over how and where the still-paralyzed David was found after his first Hulk-Out, though.
 
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