Agreed.
MeTV's SuperSci-Fi Saturday Night
- Thread starter JD
- Start date
David was crying--devastated at the loss of the cure, which triggered the transformation, but he would never want to change for the purpose of "setting the Hulk loose" on an adversary.
Not for the sake of revenge, no. But if he's in danger of his life, e.g. being buried alive or trapped in a fire or whatever, he's got to know that Hulking out is the only way to escape. And you'd think he'd catch on over time that the Hulk usually helps the people in danger and saves a lot of lives. He might see it as a devil's bargain, but in extreme situations where there's no other hope for his own or another's survival, he might accept it as a necessary evil.
FYI: "Svengoolie" is showing an interesting old movie tonight. "The Time of Their Lives" is a ghost story starring Abbott & Costello which is different in that Bud and Lou are not doing their usual double act this time around. (Rumor has it they were barely speaking at that point in time, leading to the movie keeping them apart for much of its running time. Costello plays a revolutionary-era ghost haunting an old estate, while partnered with a vivacious female ghost.
It's worth checking out, despite the utterly forgettable and generic title.
It's worth checking out, despite the utterly forgettable and generic title.
In "The First," I think he may have wanted to take it out on the other creature...who wouldn't have been your usual hapless victim.
*******
The Incredible Hulk
"The Beast Within"
Originally aired Mar. 17, 1978
This week's alias, being added to the list: David Bradburn.
And we have an episode in which Banner is referenced by somebody who doesn't realize that David B. is that David B....which could probably be the subject of another list, but I don't want to get too bogged down in the trivia.
This week David befriends a Dr. Baxter...you have to wonder if maybe he's getting some name ideas from the people that he meets...I'm pretty sure he's going to use that one sooner or later. Dr. Baxter is also the first female guest star who plays a pseudo-romantic interest role, though the subtle attraction between the two doesn't go far.
Did anyone catch any indication of where the zoo was supposed to be located? I'm sure that it was shot at a zoo in California, but that wouldn't be unusual for TV. David references his most recent location as having been New York...and that will be the setting two episodes from now. That makes me wonder if this series, like TOS, had some discrepancies between airdate order and production order.
There's sort-of good continuity with the pilot in referencing the adenine-thymine combination...but as David and Elaina seemed to be discovering that connection with their research during the events of the pilot, you have to wonder when David found the time to publish an article about it. Also, his research hadn't been specifically aggression-related...he had to figure out that his transformations were caused by rage.
And once again the plot involves David playing undercover doctor...and getting in hot water by immediately sharing his knowledge with the wrong people.
First Hulk-Out: -25:01...seven minutes later than the previous episode, and fitting better with my memory of when the first transformation usually took place.
You have to wonder why Baxter would even tell people that she saw the Hulk, given that her reputation was already suffering...I'd say that it was to get McGee on the scene, but a tram full of people also saw him...which at least backs her story after the fact.
Were they deliberately having the Hulk change back to David in night scenes so that they could use that glowy-head stock shot with the black background? This is three episodes in a row in which he transforms back the first time at night.
David handles his predicament of waking up in the tiger cage pretty well.
And David finds the time for another decent-sized conversation while McGee's on his way...if he had so much time, he could have found an excuse to split...you have to wonder at this early point if part of him wants to get caught.
So they were smuggling diamonds in the animals while the animals were still alive? How does that work?
Second Hulk-Out: -7:19...only a minute sooner than in the previous episode. It seems a bit far-fetched that Mallone could be that close and not notice that David was transforming, even with his view partially obstructed.
So I looked up who was in Elliot's monkey suit--It seems that George Barrows already had a long career of playing gorillas under his belt at the time of this episode, having done so for the likes of Abbott and Costello, Red Skelton, The Addams Family, Lucy, The Beverly Hillbillies, Jackie Gleason, The Man from UNCLE, and the Wild Wild West...as well as playing the titular creature of at least one feature, Gorilla at Large.
*******
The Incredible Hulk
"The Beast Within"
Originally aired Mar. 17, 1978
This week's alias, being added to the list: David Bradburn.
And we have an episode in which Banner is referenced by somebody who doesn't realize that David B. is that David B....which could probably be the subject of another list, but I don't want to get too bogged down in the trivia.
This week David befriends a Dr. Baxter...you have to wonder if maybe he's getting some name ideas from the people that he meets...I'm pretty sure he's going to use that one sooner or later. Dr. Baxter is also the first female guest star who plays a pseudo-romantic interest role, though the subtle attraction between the two doesn't go far.
Did anyone catch any indication of where the zoo was supposed to be located? I'm sure that it was shot at a zoo in California, but that wouldn't be unusual for TV. David references his most recent location as having been New York...and that will be the setting two episodes from now. That makes me wonder if this series, like TOS, had some discrepancies between airdate order and production order.
There's sort-of good continuity with the pilot in referencing the adenine-thymine combination...but as David and Elaina seemed to be discovering that connection with their research during the events of the pilot, you have to wonder when David found the time to publish an article about it. Also, his research hadn't been specifically aggression-related...he had to figure out that his transformations were caused by rage.
And once again the plot involves David playing undercover doctor...and getting in hot water by immediately sharing his knowledge with the wrong people.
First Hulk-Out: -25:01...seven minutes later than the previous episode, and fitting better with my memory of when the first transformation usually took place.
You have to wonder why Baxter would even tell people that she saw the Hulk, given that her reputation was already suffering...I'd say that it was to get McGee on the scene, but a tram full of people also saw him...which at least backs her story after the fact.
Were they deliberately having the Hulk change back to David in night scenes so that they could use that glowy-head stock shot with the black background? This is three episodes in a row in which he transforms back the first time at night.
David handles his predicament of waking up in the tiger cage pretty well.
And David finds the time for another decent-sized conversation while McGee's on his way...if he had so much time, he could have found an excuse to split...you have to wonder at this early point if part of him wants to get caught.
So they were smuggling diamonds in the animals while the animals were still alive? How does that work?
Second Hulk-Out: -7:19...only a minute sooner than in the previous episode. It seems a bit far-fetched that Mallone could be that close and not notice that David was transforming, even with his view partially obstructed.
So I looked up who was in Elliot's monkey suit--It seems that George Barrows already had a long career of playing gorillas under his belt at the time of this episode, having done so for the likes of Abbott and Costello, Red Skelton, The Addams Family, Lucy, The Beverly Hillbillies, Jackie Gleason, The Man from UNCLE, and the Wild Wild West...as well as playing the titular creature of at least one feature, Gorilla at Large.
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I think its the L.A. Zoo, as some of the habitats look very familiar to me. Regarding David's locations jumping around, i'm not certain its anything to do with production order. I'm guessing after the pilot movies the producers wanted David to put as many miles between one location and another once the Hulk was exposed. Since he feared McGee, it would not be wise to just go to say, San Diego, if the Hulk has been spotted in Los Angeles.
I think the paper could have been published before the last round of interviews seen in the pilot, since he has no time for anything else (and would never return to the institute for any extended amount of time) after the night of his first Hulk-out.
If i'm not mistaken, the pilot "glowy head" shot also popped up in a daytime scene, but as an extreme close up.
....with care........
The gorilla costume was the one, big failing of the episode (but was center stage in spots & TV Guide ads for the episode). True to its history, Universal recycled across its individual productions on a liberal basis, as that same costume was notably used as the subject of "Hatred Unto Death," the 1973 series finale of Rod Serling's Night Gallery. If not for the overall sensitivity of script, that 3rd rate gorilla get-up would have kicked TIH into the danger zone of disrespected comic adaptations not long after its start.
Two recent Banner love interests would end up on TV sitcoms produced by Witt/Thomas Productions: this episode's Caroline McWilliams was one of the regulars (for 2 seasons) on Soap spin-off Benson, while the pilot's Susan Sullivan was one of the original stars of It's A Living.
A gorilla episode? I might have to catch this one if it's on Netflix. 
But it seems a bit...incredible...that a guy who got around mostly by hitchhiking would be hopping coasts from week to week. It would be nice if there were some sort of pattern to David's travels, though that might be expecting a bit much of episodic television of the time...particularly if they're mainly shooting in California and pretending to be vague other places.
To my knowledge, having an academic paper published is a longer and more involved process than one would expect to happen between scenes in the pilot. ETA: I just went back and watched that sequence in the pilot (gotta love Netflix). While one could rationalize that the commercial break and hard breaks between scenes allow for the months to take place that would enable David to publish a paper on the subject...the implication is that David and Elaina first thinking to look at the DNA, discovering the adenine-thymine connection, David staying later than Elaina and further discovering the gamma connection, and exposing himself to gamma rays all take place on the same night at the lab. This is supported by David's clothes continuity...the first set of duds that he ripped up real good.
I think they're just playing a bit fast and loose with what David knew and when he knew it.
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Could the paper have been submitted during the pilot, then reviewed and published "posthumously"?
See my post above again for an edit regarding the sequence of events in the pilot, which you might have missed.
No, I saw your edit; I was simply offering a variant on your hypothesis. I agree there was room for a time jump, but it didn't have to be months, just long enough for the paper to be drafted and submitted for review. The actual review process and publication could've been "posthumous."
Given how that sequence of events plays out in the pilot it seems extremely unlikely. It was pretty clearly meant to be taking place over the course of a single night, and the whole sequence of events is driven by Banner's impatience. He stays late obsessing over the problem, makes a discovery, can't get Elaina on the phone, then rashly takes his fateful action with the gamma machine...doesn't even take time to verify how much gamma he's putting into himself when he knows that Ben's been modifying the equipment and there's a conspicuous piece of tape on the console. He didn't draft and submit a paper that evening...particularly not in that pre-Internet age. It seems unlikely that he even left notes for somebody else to write a paper about.
Sometimes sloppy continuity is just sloppy continuity. They get kudos for having put the continuity in there at all, but the details were off.
Sometimes sloppy continuity is just sloppy continuity. They get kudos for having put the continuity in there at all, but the details were off.
The impression I got is that they spent several days at least on the problem. Maybe clothing continuity suggests something different, but it seemed to me that they were spending a lot of time investigating their various questions, maybe researching for days and hitting dead ends before finally hitting on the next new idea.
Given the continuity error you point out, the simplest fix is to disregard the clothing -- maybe assume there was a gap of a week between scenes and those same items had come back around in their clothing rotation, or just ignore the detail altogether. If there's going to be an inconsistency either way, I'd say the clothing is by far the more minor inconsistency and therefore the one that should give way in order to make sense of it.
Given the continuity error you point out, the simplest fix is to disregard the clothing -- maybe assume there was a gap of a week between scenes and those same items had come back around in their clothing rotation, or just ignore the detail altogether. If there's going to be an inconsistency either way, I'd say the clothing is by far the more minor inconsistency and therefore the one that should give way in order to make sense of it.
Did you go back and watch the scenes in question? If you're watching on Netflix, pilot part 1, start at -27:53...right after the first scene with McGee. I think that we're clearly supposed to be seeing those scenes as taking place the same day/night at the lab...the clothing is one obvious visual clue to that...and in TV production terms, it wouldn't be an accidental one.
There was plenty of wiggle room for paper submissions prior to that point, but the sequence of events from -27:53 on seems pretty tight, and deliberately so.
ETA: I just watched again myself, and Elaina's clothing is also the same in the scenes that she's in...and they were changing the actors' clothes in previous scenes that were meant to be conveying the passage of time.
The whole momentum of those scenes is that they hit a partial breakthrough, David's impatient to see it through, stays late after she leaves, and gets reckless with the gamma machine. He's not stopping to draft and submit a paper in that sequence.
There was plenty of wiggle room for paper submissions prior to that point, but the sequence of events from -27:53 on seems pretty tight, and deliberately so.
ETA: I just watched again myself, and Elaina's clothing is also the same in the scenes that she's in...and they were changing the actors' clothes in previous scenes that were meant to be conveying the passage of time.
The whole momentum of those scenes is that they hit a partial breakthrough, David's impatient to see it through, stays late after she leaves, and gets reckless with the gamma machine. He's not stopping to draft and submit a paper in that sequence.
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I'm not denying that. I'm saying it makes no sense to weigh a trivial detail like clothing over a larger issue like whether or not it was possible for a paper to be published. If show canon says that a paper was published, then there must've been time for it to be published, and that outweighs a triviality like what the actors were wearing. It's a retcon, yes, but if something has to give way, then let the less important detail give way.
I'm talking about before that, though -- the early investigations with the A-T excess, which they spend a lot of time looking into until they hit a dead end.
I'm of a different mind on it...I don't think that we should have to retcon the clear intention of the pilot scenes to make way for an offhand reference in a later episode where the details are a little too sloppy to bear close scrutiny.
The half-full portion of this glass is that they made the reference at all, but there's still a half-empty portion. I'm not going to rationalize that the glass is completely full.
The half-full portion of this glass is that they made the reference at all, but there's still a half-empty portion. I'm not going to rationalize that the glass is completely full.
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This kind of bugged me. I was hoping she would figure it out, or would have at least gotten suspicious.
You could feed them to them, or surgically implant the bag somewhere. They had an episode of CSI where people were hiding them in horses uteruses. The whole thing with them killing the animals bugged me, you'd think if they managed to get them diamonds in them while they were alive they could have gotten them out without killing them. If it was a surgical thing, you'd think they could just do the surgury again and get them out, and if they just fed them to them, then all they'd have to do is wait for them to crap them out. Unnecessary surgeries would still be suspicious, but probably not as much as the animals dying so quickly.
I was wondering who he was.
"The Beast Within" is the first aired episode not to be written by Kenneth Johnson, and is the debut of the series' longtime writing/producing duo Karen Harris and Jill Sherman (now known as Jill Sherman Donner, after marrying actor Robert Donner, whom she met as a guest star on this show). And it's admittedly not very impressive. Johnson wanted to get away from the lowbrow action of other comic-book shows, and now we have the Hulk fighting a guy in a cheap gorilla suit. It's undermined by the fakeness of the gorilla, and by its annoying habit of referring to baby chimps as monkeys (which is pretty much tantamount to calling a bear cub a badger, taxonomically speaking). An actual vet would not make that mistake.
Also, Dr. Baxter isn't a very perceptive scientist, is she? Here comes this guy named David Bradburn who's inexplicably a scientific genius and is intimately familiar with the work of Dr. David Banner, and she never seems to notice the similarity. Plus, she gets a good look at the zoo logo on the Hulk's torn shirt when he's carrying her, but she doesn't seem to make the connection. This is the first time, I think, that the Hulk kept his shirt on throughout, and it was a poor time to start.
There were some continuity issues in the first Hulk-out. Beforehand, we'd heard an announcement that the zoo would close in 20 minutes. Then Carl took David to the lab and trapped him there, he Hulked out, and there was enough time for the cops to be called in afterward. Then the Hulk's rampage continued and we saw a tour tram that, judging by the driver's spiel, was only just starting its tour. That doesn't make sense. The zoo should've been closed by then. At the very least, the scene with the cops in the lab should've come after the Hulk's antics with the zoo guests.
But the tiger cub totally stole the show. Aww, it's trying to climb back in his lap! Awwww!
It was a missed opportunity to have the Hulk change before getting injected with the aggression-heightening formula. The Hulk even angrier than usual? That could've been an episode in itself (although we do get one or two episodes like that later).
A lot of familiar faces in the guest cast, a couple with other superhero connections. Caroline McWilliams (best known as Marcy from Benson) would appear in a 1996 Lois and Clark episode, while Dabbs Greer (Dr. Malone) had been in the very first Superman TV episode as the man Superman rescued in his heroic debut, as well as returning in two later episodes. Greer would also appear in Filmation's Shazam! (as a character named "Seldom Seen Slim," of all things) and The Greatest American Hero. The villainous Carl, Richard Kelton, has no other superhero-show credits, but he played the Spock-parody character Ficus in the sci-fi sitcom Quark.
While watching this, it occurred to me to wonder: Why was it so common in the '70s to think that showing action in slow motion made it more dynamic? By modern standards, it seems kind of sluggish. I think it pretty much started with The Six Million Dollar Man, when they figured out that speeding up the film looked silly so they had to paradoxically show superspeed through slow motion instead, but it seemed to catch on elsewhere. Granted, Kenneth Johnson probably picked it up from his prior work on 6M$M and The Bionic Woman, but I think its use extended to other shows of the era as well, including Wonder Woman sometimes.
Also, Dr. Baxter isn't a very perceptive scientist, is she? Here comes this guy named David Bradburn who's inexplicably a scientific genius and is intimately familiar with the work of Dr. David Banner, and she never seems to notice the similarity. Plus, she gets a good look at the zoo logo on the Hulk's torn shirt when he's carrying her, but she doesn't seem to make the connection. This is the first time, I think, that the Hulk kept his shirt on throughout, and it was a poor time to start.
There were some continuity issues in the first Hulk-out. Beforehand, we'd heard an announcement that the zoo would close in 20 minutes. Then Carl took David to the lab and trapped him there, he Hulked out, and there was enough time for the cops to be called in afterward. Then the Hulk's rampage continued and we saw a tour tram that, judging by the driver's spiel, was only just starting its tour. That doesn't make sense. The zoo should've been closed by then. At the very least, the scene with the cops in the lab should've come after the Hulk's antics with the zoo guests.
But the tiger cub totally stole the show. Aww, it's trying to climb back in his lap! Awwww!
It was a missed opportunity to have the Hulk change before getting injected with the aggression-heightening formula. The Hulk even angrier than usual? That could've been an episode in itself (although we do get one or two episodes like that later).
A lot of familiar faces in the guest cast, a couple with other superhero connections. Caroline McWilliams (best known as Marcy from Benson) would appear in a 1996 Lois and Clark episode, while Dabbs Greer (Dr. Malone) had been in the very first Superman TV episode as the man Superman rescued in his heroic debut, as well as returning in two later episodes. Greer would also appear in Filmation's Shazam! (as a character named "Seldom Seen Slim," of all things) and The Greatest American Hero. The villainous Carl, Richard Kelton, has no other superhero-show credits, but he played the Spock-parody character Ficus in the sci-fi sitcom Quark.
While watching this, it occurred to me to wonder: Why was it so common in the '70s to think that showing action in slow motion made it more dynamic? By modern standards, it seems kind of sluggish. I think it pretty much started with The Six Million Dollar Man, when they figured out that speeding up the film looked silly so they had to paradoxically show superspeed through slow motion instead, but it seemed to catch on elsewhere. Granted, Kenneth Johnson probably picked it up from his prior work on 6M$M and The Bionic Woman, but I think its use extended to other shows of the era as well, including Wonder Woman sometimes.
We even saw that with Superman when he overloaded on Solar energy before giving it to the Parasite 2.o via heat vision
http://www.supermansupersite.com/parasite.html
Loved the cub. It wasn't long after this that we got the horror movie of the same title...
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Doesn't work. The mass of a single paper clip is equivalent to a bit more energy than was released in the bombing of Nagasaki. The amount of energy necessary to convert into hundreds of kilograms of mass would be hundreds of thousands of times greater. The Hulk would blow up an entire city every time he changed back to Banner. And there's no way the medical device David used to expose himself to gamma could possibly have dosed him with more energy than a multi-megaton nuclear bomb.
And there's no way that the mass could be "stored inside" in the form of energy. It's the other way around -- all that energy is stored in the form of mass.
