MemoryAlpha editor refuses to change Adira's Gender to "Non-Binary"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by nafeasonto, Jan 9, 2021.

  1. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    It was obviously played as a joke.
     
  2. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Not in canon. Andorians in the novels have 4 biological sexes, but all the show said is that most of the time marriages involve 4 people. Sex is never brought up.

    It was the same with Bolians, they sometimes had marriages involving more than 2 people, but not all the time. The other partners are referred to as a co-husband or co-wife.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
  3. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Andorians, maybe, if you interpret the line from Data's Day the same way the novels did as to mean they have four genders. Though even then, the novel depiction still seems somewhat binary in that the four genders are divided into two masculine genders and two feminine genders. But Bolians? There's never been anything to indicate they have anything other than two genders.
     
  4. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    According to DS9: "Field of Fire", Bolians can have marriages with more than 2 people, that's probably where it came from, just like the Andorian one.
     
  5. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Field of Fire specifically stated that marriage consisted of one woman and two men, so I'm not sure how that can be interpreted as "multiple genders."
     
  6. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    I agree.
     
  7. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Admiral Admiral

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    I don't know if it was meant to be a joke. I mean when I saw it in the movie theater nobody laughed. I don't think it was them trying to be inclusive either. It came off to me, as them showing how the, Welcome Ladies and Gentlemen, common expression has evolved in the future. Basically a futurism moment.

    Jasom
     
  8. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, there was a lot in that movie that provoked an opposite reaction from the audience that was intended.
     
  9. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Admiral Admiral

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    When I saw the movie I think their was a very early unease that this movie isn't going to be great. I guess starting the movie off in a boring primitive village was not the best of ideas. Still I haven't seen things sink faster than Batman and Robin. Soon as they started skating I was like 'Good God this is going to be awful." Best movie crowd ever was when I saw."Insidious" That crowd was way into it. People yelled at ever jump scare. One lady spilled her big tub of popcorn on her. Next best was "Sister Act" when this old lady would get mad at Bill Nunn when he used a cuss word.


    Jason
     
  10. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It would explain the different Andorians and Bolians we've seen: one Andorian subtype has eyebrows, the other has additional antennae, one Bolian subtype has hair, the other doesn't
     
  11. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And that's not even including a subspecies of Andorians like the Aenar.
     
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  12. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

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    I am a contributor to the TFWiki!
     
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  13. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Let's Fly Moderator

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    It's probably a joke, just a very shitty one that ends up being meanspirited. But given Berman's history of being shitty about LGBTQ representation it's hard to not assume the worst about the intention.
     
  14. TimeIsAPredator

    TimeIsAPredator Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Joke or not it is one of those incidents that would have had to pass through a lot of people before it happened and you would hope that someone along the chain would hit the stop button.

    Maybe people did and Berman told them the shut up who knows but it should have been pulled before it ever made it to film
     
  15. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Let's Fly Moderator

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    Transphobia was openly acceptable in the US until about 5 years ago and still is among many people, it's entirely possible that no one in any position of power cared.
     
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  16. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I may be giving them too much benefit of the doubt here, but I think it's entirely possible they simply didn't realize it would read as transphobic. That's likely to be my preferred view unless there's direct evidence to the contrary.
     
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  17. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Admiral Admiral

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    That's sort of how I read it. I mean jokes of that nature is not exactly something that Trek ever did that much. It felt to me like the standard greeting updated to be inclusive for aliens. I guess I should go back and watch it though and see how the line is delivered.. Maybe it's possible it was a joke but it doesn't feel like a joke because it's not Data telling a joke. As in he isn't saying it to be funny. Granted either way it does do that Trek thing where they basically only would acknowledge that humans are just straight people and would never even admit gay or trans people still existed in the future.


    Jason
     
  18. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Let's Fly Moderator

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    That's been the case for 90% of transphobia in media for decades. Transgender people have been the butt of jokes forever and increasingly cruel jokes as people became more aware of them. The ending of Ace Ventura in particular sticks out to me because of how much damage it did to me growing up. Yeah, it's a joke but the joke is that trans people exist and are the most disgusting thing in existence. Even the one is this case is just mocking the idea that there are beings who aren't male or female. It's easy to dismiss when they aren't joking about the fact that people like you even exist.
     
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  19. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Commodore Commodore

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    Speaking of NEMESIS, it's the only Trek film to be written by an LGBT figure (John Logan), unless I'm forgetting anyone else?

    Also, that line by Data does actually sound like a rephrasing of a line by Odo in "If Wishes Were Horses" where he's at Quarks trying to get everyone's attention, "Ladies, and gentlemen, and all androgynous creatures... Your attention, please!"
     
  20. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Then perhaps Data should have said something like androgynous instead.