MemoryAlpha editor refuses to change Adira's Gender to "Non-Binary"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by nafeasonto, Jan 9, 2021.

  1. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There was one attempt to address LGBTs in the old movies, and that was in 2002's Nemesis:
    "Ladies and Gentlemen and invited transgendered species."
    It's obvious that they wanted to use the word, but then they implied there are entire species out there who are trans - if everyone is trans, wouldn't they all be the same, the majority, basically just like they're cis? And wouldn't they also be ladies and gentlemen anyway? It was odd :shrug:
     
  2. cultcross

    cultcross We get locked down, but we get up again Moderator

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    That's because it was a silly joke, not an attempt at inclusiveness.
     
  3. Jinn

    Jinn Mistress of the Chaotic Energies Rear Admiral

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    Oh yikes! I gotta say I'm glad I haven't rewatched this one since probably 2013. Frankly, I don't think this was an attempt to address actual lgbt people, since it explicitely addresses "species", so either this was an attempt at including fictional (and almost never mentioned) non-binary species, or a delibarate fuck you to real life human trans people. I'm inclined to think it's the former, and they were just hella uneducated. Still sucks though. Seriously, this is why it's good to have actualy lgbtq+ people behidn the scenes. So we don't have to go through cringe like that. Also, I see Berman has a writing credit. I shall blame him.
     
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  4. cultcross

    cultcross We get locked down, but we get up again Moderator

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    And yet another violation of Troi. What was it with TNG writers and Troi rape analogies? How about a story where she has some agency? Oh whoops it's the last movie.
     
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  5. casey

    casey Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    The "invited" part doesn't sit well with me. It implies ladies and gentlemen are welcome but only certain transgender species (whatever that is) are welcome. Just the ones we are cool with, we won't let just any any transgendered species through the door. Not inclusive at all.
     
  6. Angry Fanboy

    Angry Fanboy Captain Captain

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    The treatment of Crusher and Troi generally was abysmal across all four films
     
  7. Court_Vince

    Court_Vince Commander Red Shirt

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    "Transgendered" is also an outdated term.
     
  8. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Let's Fly Moderator

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    It's a disgusting line and treating trans people as a punchline, a common trope throughout most of film history and one that Trek has sadly used a few times.
     
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  9. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Speaking explicitly out of ignorance here, if "transgendered" has fallen out of favor, does that apply to "transgender" as well? And if so, what are the preferred terms now?
     
  10. Court_Vince

    Court_Vince Commander Red Shirt

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    No, Transgender is fine.
     
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  11. dupersuper

    dupersuper Captain Captain

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    You...REwatched Nemesis?
     
  12. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  13. cultcross

    cultcross We get locked down, but we get up again Moderator

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    We all have our crosses to bear
     
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  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Good lord.

    Data obviously meant "beyond" (binary) gender by that.

    No one was trying to insult or patronize the trans community.
     
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  15. Jinn

    Jinn Mistress of the Chaotic Energies Rear Admiral

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    I actually don‘t think I have, I just wrote that post before going to bed and worded it weirdly. I think I only watched it once when it was on TV.
     
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Decades ago I wrote several chapters of a post nemesis TNG fanfiction, yet I'd forgotten that Data died in Nemesis because the movie made very little impact on me.

    Sadly Nemesis was the final ever TNG story... Wait a second?
     
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  17. TimeIsAPredator

    TimeIsAPredator Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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  18. Arvis Taljik

    Arvis Taljik Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Both Bolians and Andorians fall into this category IIRC. I agree that no insult was intended either.
     
  19. SJGardner

    SJGardner Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I didn't even learn about the issue with Data's remarks at the wedding until I had started watching Star Trek with the original audio... in the Hungarian dub, he merely said "... and invitees of any other gender." It was still played as a joke though.
     
  20. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's a fairly common trope in sci-fi to do some spin on "Welcome, ladies, gentlemen and smizmars!", usually as a gag because: "ha-ha, aliens are weird, ha-ha!" (Indeed, without even checking, I'd put money on tvtropes having a whole page of this.)
    In this instance, while the phrasing was unfortunate and insensitive, I think it came from a place of ignorance, not active malignance. Not that this is a hill I'm willing to die on, because...it's 'Nemesis'.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
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