Mass Effect 3

[LeadHead]

I think the series will survive past Mass Effect 3 I just think the next game is going to be on the hotseat. It will make or break the series. Given that the trilogy was wrapping up, it was already going to be under a lot of pressure, now with the terrible original endings and the controversy and negative feelings it brought out from the fan base, they're gonna have a very tall mountain to climb to make the next game a critical and financial success.

I believe in the series and still like BioWare despite wishing they'd do more to make the endings better, so I'm hopefull.

 

[Skywalker]

Actually I'd prefer that BioWare left it at three games and developed a new IP, but there's no way in hell EA will let that happen.

 

[Reverend]

Somehow I doubt EA will have to push them to make more Mass Effect. Bioware invested a lot of time and money into creating their own IPs so there's no way they'd just abandon them so soon. They'll stop making Mass Effect games only when they cease to be profitable...which may be right after the next game whatever that may be. Who knows.

Personally I'm just interested to see where they intend to go with it since ME3's ending(s) leaves them with very narrow options as to the state of the galaxy. If they set the game post ME3, they're be forced to pick a "canon" ending, which lets be honest can only either be destroy or control...probably the latter since the former rather undermines their whole (self contradictory) premise from the original trilogy that organics will ALWAYS create synthetics that ALWAYS destroy them. Though it's probably Bioware's preferred ending, synthesis is just not workable in the long run as it rather precludes all possibilities for conflict and drama. Pretty stagnant ground in storytelling terms. Even so, control has the slight problem that the reapers are still around, meaning any big galactic threat will have to include some contrived reason why AI-Shep's attack squids can't/won't deal with it themselves.

Sure they could set the next game somewhere between humanity's first contact with the turians and the events of Mass Effect 1 (b/c though it'd be cool, I can't see them doing a game sans humans), but that is even more limiting in terms of scope and--depending on what kind of story they choose to tell--they'd quickly run out of times and places for their games to exist.

 

[-Brett-]

I'm getting more than a little sick of prequels in the entertainment industry as a whole. No way no how would I buy a Mass Effect one.

 

[Reverend]

^Not much danger of that. As I said, there's really only a 30 year span of history between first contact and the Eden Prime attack. We pretty much know about most of the big stuff like Shanxi, the Skillian Blitz etc. and none of it is really viable as a setting for an RPG. A sidequel set in the two years Shepard spent dead might be a possibility, but again, we know that nothing much really happened so the scope of any story would be very limited.

To me the most likely scenario is to set the next story centuries or millennia after the events of ME3. The latter if they want a complete break and the former if they want characters like say Liara as a matriarch or Grunt as an aged battlemaster to make an appearance. Either way they'd need to pick a canon ending and that's unfortunate.

I suppose they could try and dance around it like (from what I gather) happens in the Elder Scrolls games, but honestly I control, destroy, synthesis and refuse would be next to impossible to reconcile.

 

[ATimson]

I suppose they could try and dance around it like (from what I gather) happens in the Elder Scrolls games, but honestly I control, destroy, synthesis and refuse would be next to impossible to reconcile.

Refuse would be impossible to reconcile with anything, because the galaxy gets destroyed - but it's apparently not a "real" ending (it doesn't pop any of the achievements), so Bioware probably doesn't care about that.

Control and destroy can easily be reconciled with each other. As long as you keep the Geth out of sight, and don't meet any "helpful" Reapers, they're functionally identical.

Synthesis is where it gets a bit tricky. But then again, you can do the same thing - don't use any AI, don't bring it up, and just make everybody's eyes glow green. (Or handwave it off as a temporary/artistic effect.)

I always thought the problem at the end was going to be the destroyed mass relays, but since Bioware's made clear they're retconning Arrival regarding what happens, the way ahead seems free & clear for ME4 to me.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

I always thought the problem at the end was going to be the destroyed mass relays, but since Bioware's made clear they're retconning Arrival regarding what happens, the way ahead seems free & clear for ME4 to me.

No retconning is required.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I always thought the problem at the end was going to be the destroyed mass relays, but since Bioware's made clear they're retconning Arrival regarding what happens, the way ahead seems free & clear for ME4 to me.

No retconning is required.

Yeah the only retconning was changing the relays being destroyed to the just being heavily damaged in the extended cut and all 3 ending make it sound like it probably won't be too hard to get them up and running again anyway.

 

[Reverend]

Synthesis is where it gets a bit tricky. But then again, you can do the same thing - don't use any AI, don't bring it up, and just make everybody's eyes glow green. (Or handwave it off as a temporary/artistic effect.)

My problem with this is that synthesis is presented as a fundamental change in the nature of ALL organic & synthetic life, with everything able to commune with everything else. Even leaving aside the glowey eyes and circuitry patterns on *everything*, I'd call that pretty damn irreconcilable with a galaxy that has either been purged of all synthetics (though they could have made more since) or one where a big scary AI is controlling a massive fleet of dreadnoughts to keep everyone in line.

But yeah, control & destroy are much easier to be ambiguous about, but if you're going to eliminate one (or two) of the three (or four!) major possible endings then why bother trying to reconcile at all? Simpler to just pick an ending and have done with it.

I always thought the problem at the end was going to be the destroyed mass relays, but since Bioware's made clear they're retconning Arrival regarding what happens, the way ahead seems free & clear for ME4 to me.

No retconning is required.

Yeah the only retconning was changing the relays being destroyed to the just being heavily damaged in the extended cut and all 3 ending make it sound like it probably won't be too hard to get them up and running again anyway.

The logic on that whole thing was always sketchy IMO, even after the EC. I mean what about the inactive relays? Charon, Arcturus & the Shanxi relays couldn't have been the only ones in the galaxy to fall off the network, no? There must be other corners of the galaxy effectively cut off from the larger relay network. Plus of course there's the whole thing about how it's even possible to *see* a continuous wave that travels faster than light...to say nothing of what the hell the space magic actually *is*.

 

[Jono]

^ Doesn't the Citadel control the network? I thought it was stated that the Reapers took the Citadel from the Protheans and disabled the entire network during that harvest, so it should be able to activate relays even if they were inactive with its Crucible powered wave.

 

[Reverend]

It's pretty ambiguous to what degree the citadel can remotely control the relays. I suppose it could remote activate them though some kind of QEC circuit, so it wouldn't matter where they might have drifted off too, but to actually function and transmit the wave, they still need to create the massless tunnel between matching pairs. What if one link in the chain has been destroyed or put beyond the range of it's partner relay? Whole branches of the network could be isolated from the main hub and there's nothing the citadel itself can do to remedy that. I suppose it could direct a relay to move under it's own power (if they're even equipped with that function) but anything less than a full blown FLT drive and nav system and that relay could take *years* to get back into position.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I'm getting more than a little sick of prequels in the entertainment industry as a whole. No way no how would I buy a Mass Effect one.

I had the same initial reaction to Halo 3: ODST until I actually played through a couple of levels; wasn't quite the bastardized "Because we can always make more money" prequel I thought it would be, and by the end it was actually pretty entertaining.

And the Mass Effect universe is FAR better developed than Halo's. It's practically soaking with sidestory material; the occupation of Shanxi, The Skyllian Blitz, the Battle of Torfan, the sacking of Mindoir, the Adventures of John Grissom, the founding of the Blue suns, the Collectors invasions of Feris Fields... any single one of these is actually fertile ground for a fully developed RPG, provided you're willing to expand character and story development beyond the initial premise. The battle of Shanxi would probably be the easiest, though, since the story is already mapped out: it begins with the turian invasion of the planet and ends with the intervention of the Citadel. That process between those two points was always sort of glossed over in the Codex... but then, EVERYTHING in the Codex is written that way, even shit you did yourself and you know good and damn well it wasn't nearly that simple.

For all we know, Shanxi involved running land battles on three continents, the theft of a Turian frigate and subsequent ramming of their flagship, fleet actions and asteroid bombardments in twelve neighboring star systems and a guerilla-style infiltration and sabotage of a Turian shipyard. Throw in some Batarian intrigue, a "Priority: Search the Galaxy for Allies" mission, and maybe even a before-he-was-famous cameo by the Illusive Man, and you've got yourself a game.

 

[HotRod]

Bioware just confirmed that the Omega DLC is coming this fall and that thay were indeed planning on another full Mass Effect Game. Sadly, this news also came with the word that "the Doctor's" are retiring.

 

[Delsaber]

That, and Drew Karpyshyn is long gone, too...

I'll withhold judgement until we actually have a better idea of what this new Mass Effect actually is. Others have done well enough working on second-hand IP: Fallout is a great example, and Halo 4 looks to be doing just fine without Bungie's involvement, etc. There are probably still enough of the original team at Bioware even if the three biggest names are gone.

...on the other hand, Mass Effect is a huge tentpole for me personally, as my favourite franchise of this generation. I'd rather see it end now than be subjected to a "new trilogy" situation where I have to start actively decanonizing stuff in my mind. I don't want to be that guy.

 

[Reverend]

Nice to see they finally got the 'Omega DLC' announcement out of the way. I wonder what took them so long, I mean it was hardly a secret, no?

As I said in the DA3 thread, the departure of Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk isn't exactly encouraging in light of the direction Bioware has taken these last few years. If anything I feel this could be worse for the ME team than the DA team since they at least appear to have a firm grip on what they're doing. To be fair though, it's a little hard to gauge things on the ME side since Walters & Hudson appear to have withdrawn from interacting with fans since ME3's launch (even before the ending poo hit the tri-coloured fan.) What precious little I have seen/heard from them since the launch (other than the standard canned PR responses) makes me think they knew they screwed themselves with ME3, but couldn't really do much to avoid it.

It's curious that these two teams have taken seemingly diametric opposite approaches to how they're dealing with fan feedback in regards to developing new content. While the DA guys are actively--even voraciously--seeking the opinions of all comers, the ME team seem to have adopted a bit of a fortress mentality. Probably because it's been a fair while since DA2 came out and the backlash was several orders of magnitude less severe than what the ME3 devs found themselves on the receiving end of...but still, doesn't bode well in the long run.

Personally I hope whatever they decide to do with the Mass Effect franchise from here on out lives up to or even exceeds the standards set by the first trilogy, but I can't help but feel wary of further disappointment. Time will tell.

Oh and here's the link for anyone wondering what the hell we're going on about.

 

[STR]

I have a question about Mass Effect 3 exactly what do I need to get the final renegade/paragon conversation options for the final talk with the Illusive Man In the Citadel control room thingy?

My understanding is that it's not stats related; it's tied to your dialogue choices with the IM throughout the entire game. You need to always pick the renegade option, or always take the paragon option, during the earlier dialogues.

Oh okay I used the renegade conversation option on Mars so that may have had something to do with it.

Well the renegade interupt still worked so that was good enough for that playthrough

One a second playthough (imported from ME2, played through to end, reimported from ME3) I was able to play out both options in the ending.

 

[Delsaber]

Personally I hope whatever they decide to do with the Mass Effect franchise from here on out lives up to or even exceeds the standards set by the first trilogy, but I can't help but feel wary of further disappointment. Time will tell.

Exactly this, plus I've seen a lot of franchises over the years that I care about as much as Mass Effect mishandled or sold short by new teams. Suikoden, Phantasy Star, Valkyria Chronicles, Star Control... as many failures in transition as there have been surprising success stories like Fallout, really.

Silver lining: at least we know that due to TOR's failure, whatever comes next for Mass Effect probably won't be an MMO.

 

[Reverend]

^That is strangely comforting. Personally I have a really hard time understanding the appeal of MMOs and I'd hate to see Mass Effect go down that road.

As for you other point; I think cases like the successful Fallout revival (so far..ish. MMO still a distic danger IIRC) and Deus Ex are the exception rather than the rule. Most of the recent spate of revivals and further "franchising" of existing IPs has been decidedly rocky...the new X-Com looks promising though...

Incidentally what happened to 'Valkyria Chronicles'? I only got a PS3 a few months back and that was one of the first games I bought for it. Loving it so far, though I'm a bit stuck on that mission with the ridiculously giganomous tank thing...have they cacked up the sequels already?

 

[Delsaber]

I know that mission well. You can grenade the radiators on the giant tank easier than you can hit them with lancer shots.

For reasons that continue to escape me, Sega redirected the Valkyria sequels to the PSP, the last of which didn't even get an English localization. As you'd no doubt expect, the loss of all that hardware muscle meant that PSP versions were mere shadows of the PS3 original.

Last I heard, the franchise is now in social/mobile territory. A boon in Asia I suppose, but certainly not helping the fans over here.

In Sega's defence however, they're in no shape right now to bankroll much else.

 

[Angel4576]

...on the other hand, Mass Effect is a huge tentpole for me personally, as my favourite franchise of this generation. I'd rather see it end now than be subjected to a "new trilogy" situation where I have to start actively decanonizing stuff in my mind. I don't want to be that guy.

I can sympathize with this view.

ME is my favourite franchise of this generation too, by a long distance, so this news both intrigues and terrifies me. On the one hand I wouldn't want the franchise to outstay its welcome, but on the other, I'm nowhere near ready to say goodbye to it all yet.

Personally, Mass Effect is to me in this generation what Final Fantasy was in the last two.