Mass Effect 3

[Quinton O'Connor]

I really don't dislike Leng, but yeah, he was much better in Karpyshyn's last book, Retribution. He didn't do THAT much in it, but it was good setup for once we eventually learned he would be showing up in ME3, except in ME3 he's a one-trick pony for sure.

Amanda Kenson... now, that was a bad character, oi.

 

[ATimson]

I guess maybe if you aren't planning on replaying the game even half as often as I am, then it makes a difference, but really, meta knowledge on ME3's endgame =/= reasons for Hackett, Aria, or anyone else to convince Shepard that Omega is worth taking a look at earlier on in the game. I know it's an exaggeration, but to me It's almost like saying, "I already bought Season 7, I already know how the Dominion is defeated, why should I buy Season 5?"

I can say that I'm planning on replaying ME3 infinitely less than you will,, so...

(I can see myself maybe replaying ME1, but probably not 2 and 3.)

But I'll still buy the DLC regardless, because I'm OCD and having the incomplete game on my Xbox profile would bug me.

 

[Skywalker]

Kai Leng was pretty good in Retribution (we'll just pretend that other book he also appeared in never happened ). He was a murderer and a bigot and I hated him, but you're clearly not supposed to be rooting for him.

He should have been introduced earlier in ME3, ideally during the Mars mission. He desperately needed more characterization. And his weak boss battles didn't help, either. "I have to recharge! Cover me!"

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

I can't imagine not playing ME2 and ME3 after ME1, but while I enjoyed ME1 quite a bit, it was my least favorite, so yeah. Also, I'm really OCD about following an entire story, too, so even if I liked 2 and 3 less, I'd probably play them. Then again, ME1 does end somewhat neatly -- Shepard going off to find a way to stop the Reapers is a marginally OK bookend, I s'pose.

And yeah, Skywalker, that other book totally never happened. I actually contributed to that infamous Google Document a few times and "held the line" with the threads drawing attention to the travesty on BSN, so believe me, I fought the good fight against that horrible sequel. Now THERE'S a Mass Effect product I won't go near again!

I love it when Shepard calls Kai Leng out for how pathetic he really is -- I think THAT'S the reason the dynamic still kinda works for me, because he's really not supposed to be the even-keeled nemesis like Saren was, he just thinks he is. Is that nearly as cool? Nah, but I'm OK with it.

And technically Kai Leng was "introduced" during the Mars mission, if you wanna stretch things quite a bit and say that seeing him standing next to The Illusive Man counts. But, haha, yeah, I know what you mean and I agree. He could have bailed when he recognized that Eva Core was screwed, or something, but maybe temporarily trapped Liara and barked at her over how much he hated asari. You know, something "superfluous" which actually enriched his character beyond "I hate you, Shepard".

 

[Skywalker]

Yeah, something like that could have worked. And why did Kai Leng hate Shepard so much, anyway? Did he see Shepard as a threat to his status as TIM's #1 enforcer? Was he upset because TIM chose Shepard over Kai Leng to lead the fight against the Collectors? Or was it just a one-sided pissing contest for him?

The general point, I guess, is that you need more than just a cool look and a badass attitude to be a good villain (or even a good character). Kai Leng is, essentially, the Darth Maul of Mass Effect.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Sounds about right. He really should have had a line about why he hated Shepard so much. Better yet, he should have appeared very briefly in ME2, but since Karpyshyn hadn't created him yet that would have been pretty difficult.

 

[Reverend]

No, I think if they had Kai Leng mugging and monologuing like some cheesy comic book villain it would have been painful. Besides, he's not the main villain (because there really isn't one when you think about it) he's just a thug who happens to be a xenophobic psychopath...with an N7 rating. I actually found the little video clips of Leng in the Cronos Station level quite telling for his character. He feels threatened by Shepard and unless I'm mistaken, TIM actually respects Shepard more than Kai Leng.

Oh, and the asari scientists with their throats slit on Thessia was a nice callback...Actually, given the history, I wonder if they'll include Kai Leng in the Omega DLC? Not as (another) boss battle, but just there as a character.

 

[Camren]

I'll buy the Omega DLC but I'm not really expecting anything fascinating relating to Protheans or even the Omega Relay itself. I think it will simply be a case of clearing out Cerberus and that's it. I would be pleasantly surprised if the DLC fleshes out the Protheans or Reapers but I'm really not expecting it to.

 

[bullethead]

I'll buy the Omega DLC but I'm not really expecting anything fascinating relating to Protheans or even the Omega Relay itself. I think it will simply be a case of clearing out Cerberus and that's it. I would be pleasantly surprised if the DLC fleshes out the Protheans or Reapers but I'm really not expecting it to.

Well, the Leviathan DLC coming out soon is gonna flesh out the Reapers, so there's that.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Yeah, you never know. They're clearly taking a somewhat different approach to single-player DLC with ME3 than with ME2, which makes sense because if the trilogy were a television series (bear with me) ME2 would still be set at a point in which more one-offs would be accepted by rabid fans wanting to know how it all ends. Overlord, Kasumi... fantastic one-offs. Leviathan's blatantly more grounded in the framework of the main arc.

 

[ATimson]

Yeah, you never know. They're clearly taking a somewhat different approach to single-player DLC with ME3 than with ME2, which makes sense because if the trilogy were a television series (bear with me) ME2 would still be set at a point in which more one-offs would be accepted by rabid fans wanting to know how it all ends. Overlord, Kasumi... fantastic one-offs. Leviathan's blatantly more grounded in the framework of the main arc.

On the one hand, that makes sense.

On the other hand if what they do now fleshes out the main arc too much, people are going to whine about how it should've been in the base game instead.

Damned either way.

 

[RyuRoots]

Yeah, something like that could have worked. And why did Kai Leng hate Shepard so much, anyway? Did he see Shepard as a threat to his status as TIM's #1 enforcer? Was he upset because TIM chose Shepard over Kai Leng to lead the fight against the Collectors? Or was it just a one-sided pissing contest for him?

The general point, I guess, is that you need more than just a cool look and a badass attitude to be a good villain (or even a good character). Kai Leng is, essentially, the Darth Maul of Mass Effect.

Only without the part where he ever seems legitimately threatening.

Someone who runs away from every engagement wherein he has neither an invincible (what) gunship and/or hardcore plot armor before getting utterly annihilated? Maul wasn't a deep character by any stretch, but I at least was capable of taking him seriously as someone dangerous with a lightsaber.

 

[Skywalker]

Good point. So Leng is even worse than Darth Maul.

 

[Reverend]

Yeah, you never know. They're clearly taking a somewhat different approach to single-player DLC with ME3 than with ME2, which makes sense because if the trilogy were a television series (bear with me) ME2 would still be set at a point in which more one-offs would be accepted by rabid fans wanting to know how it all ends. Overlord, Kasumi... fantastic one-offs. Leviathan's blatantly more grounded in the framework of the main arc.

And then there was ME3's very first DLC. I don't care what Bioware claimed, having a prothean squadmate *was* central to the main plot.

On the one hand, that makes sense.

On the other hand if what they do now fleshes out the main arc too much, people are going to whine about how it should've been in the base game instead.

Damned either way.

Well people will always whine, the internets being the internets. That shouldn't stop anyone from doing what they think is a good idea.

 

[Jeyl]

And then there was ME3's very first DLC. I don't care what Bioware claimed, having a prothean squadmate *was* central to the main plot.

And I actually prefer the game without him. I know that's strange considering he's a Prothean, but geez. He's the most typical "I'm a warrior and I'm built to fight" trope that I've seen in so many other BioWare games. His appearance is too convenient, he's not that interesting and his design is uninspiring.

 

[Reverend]

^YMMV. Personally I can take him or leave him, but really, it's beside the point. Like him or no, his story is most assuredly ties into the main arc and his presence sheds new light and added depth & detail on a number of subjects. Not just the protheans and the reapers, but the ancient asari, the origins of the rachni and a little on the race that preceded them.

 

[STR]

He's the most typical "I'm a warrior and I'm built to fight" trope that I've seen in so many other BioWare games.

That he's the stereotypical warrior isn't what makes him interesting. It's that he's an enormous ass. You can't even take half the stuff he says to people seriously. Is he providing background on the Salarians and Asari or is he just trying to piss people (mostly Liara) off? He lies without hesitation or remorse and seems to treat almost everyone with open disdain. He is refreshingly contemptible.

His extended cut ending is pretty lame and out-of-character though.

 

[Skywalker]

I wish you could just equip one weapon in SP.

^You can't just equip one weapon? Strange I thought you could.

Could have sworn you can equip just the one weapon in SP...

So, I finally imported my ME2 Adept last night and it looks like you guys were right. I can have my Shepard carry just a pistol and nothing else. But the squadmates must have at least two, for some reason. So I think what happened was I got the squadmate thing mixed up and thought it applied to Shepard, too.

 

[Reverend]

^Well since the squadmates' cooldowns aren't affected by weapon weight it really makes no difference as far as they're concerned. So feel free to load up Ash with a Revanent and a Widow and let her do some serious damage while you chuck enemies around with biotics.

 

[Skywalker]

Ooo, I'll definitely do that.

Apparently Tali is dead in this Shepard's world (I guess I'd forgotten about that). So...that ought to make things interesting later.