Marvel/Netflix Daredevil Season 1

[Ethros]

Daredevil in Civil War would be interesting since Matt Murdock was not in the comic Civil War.

Yeah he is. Unless it's not Matt Murdock in the suit, but it's defintely Daredevil in the TPB I'm looking at right now

 

[kirk55555]

I'm pretty sure that's actually Danny Rand, aka Iron Fist, dressed as Daredevil. I don't quite remember why Rand was being Daredevil, but I seem to remember that being the situation at the time. It wasn't something done specifially for Civil War, I think it was an ongoing thing in Daredevil's comic at the time, or something like that.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Daredevil in Civil War would be interesting since Matt Murdock was not in the comic Civil War.

Yeah he is. Unless it's not Matt Murdock in the suit, but it's defintely Daredevil in the TPB I'm looking at right now

It's not, it's Danny Rand. Granted, they screw up in one panel where Matt Murdock is clearly there getting a fake name as part of the resistance (I don't think Mark Millar knew what was going on in Ed Brubaker's work at the time), but Matt Murdock was in Europe at the time with Danny Rand pretending to be him. Basically, this was after Matt's secret identity had been outed. After denying it for quite some time, he is eventually arrested by the FBI and locked up in Rykers. During this time, Danny Rand wore his costume so Daredevil would appear to still be out and about. However, right around the same time as Civil War, Matt escaped from prison by pretending to be captured by Punisher and then fled to Europe to help figure out the conspiracy against him.

Really, there was a bit of a missed opportunity to explore what was happening in Civil War from the perspective of an attorney. She-Hulk did cover it some, though (at least in Civil War: Frontline, not sure if in her comic).

 

[kirk55555]

Really, there was a bit of a missed opportunity to explore what was happening in Civil War from the perspective of an attorney. She-Hulk did cover it some, though (at least in Civil War: Frontline, not sure if in her comic).

She-Hulk had one Civil War tie-in issue during Dan Slott's run. I was a bit disappointed that my favorite character supported the act, but it made sense for her. It would have been interesting to see Murdock's take on it, especially with his ideas as a lawyer vs. she-Hulk's. I could totally see him fighting the Act in court, against She-Hulk, but unfortunately we never got to see that.

 

[Guy Gardener]

She supported it?

I can see that being her first position, but I also remember them using spin technology to take her powers away and Jennifer got super pissy.

Although, going the lawyer route, she would have to lose her case, several times in each of the lower courts, to make it all the way up tot he Supreme Court change federal lawyer and not just district or state law.

It's way easier to buy a few politicians.

Xavier should have been stacking the deck for the last 5 to 15 years.

Either putting in a Manchurian candidates, sympathizers or out right mutants into Congress to block any further attempts at a new Mutant Registration Act..

 

[Alidar Jarok]

She initially supported the act, but she opposed the way it was handled. The Civil War tie-in Civil War: Front Line had an ongoing story where Jennifer Walters represented Robert Baldwin (Speedball, i.e., the guy who started the whole mess) and tried to get him released from custody. There were references to her filing motions in court challenging the legality of the detentions in 42.

The idea of the Act wasn't a black and white issue. Ultimately, Iron Man went to far and certainly some writers (particularly JMS on Amazing Spider-Man) treated it as having a clear right and wrong, but there were legitimate reasons to support the act. So having She-Hulk be initially in favor of it (and Carol Danvers too) made a good deal of sense.

 

[kirk55555]

She initially supported the act, but she opposed the way it was handled. The Civil War tie-in Civil War: Front Line had an ongoing story where Jennifer Walters represented Robert Baldwin (Speedball, i.e., the guy who started the whole mess) and tried to get him released from custody. There were references to her filing motions in court challenging the legality of the detentions in 42.

The idea of the Act wasn't a black and white issue. Ultimately, Iron Man went to far and certainly some writers (particularly JMS on Amazing Spider-Man) treated it as having a clear right and wrong, but there were legitimate reasons to support the act. So having She-Hulk be initially in favor of it (and Carol Danvers too) made a good deal of sense.

Honestly, as much as I love Civil War (its my favorite Marvel event), I never bothered with Frontline, so I didn't know she was in that. but, she did stay a SHIELD agent until she learned what Iron Man did to her cousin, so I'm guessing she didn't actually change her mind on the idea of registration, even if she (apparently) didn't support the negative zone prison.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Front Line was one of my favorite crossovers. I recently subscribed to Marvel Unlimited, so it was an opportunity to read Civil War. Trying to pick which ones to read quickly became a sprawling mess, which was OK because Civil War was pretty much the definition of sprawling mess.

I ended up going with:

Spoiler: list

ASM 529-531
FF 536-537
Civil War 1
She-Hulk 8
Wolverine 42
ASM 532
CW Front Line 1
Civil War 2
Thunderbolts 103
CW Front Line 2
Wolverine 43
ASM 533
FF 538
CW Front Line 3
Thunderbolts 104
Thunderbolts 105
Civil War 3
CW Front Line 4
Wolverine 44
ASM 534
FF 539
CW Front Line 5
Ms. Marvel 6
Wolverine 45
Ms. Marvel 7
Civil War 4
Wolverine 46
CW Front Line 6
Captain America 22
ASM 535
CW Choosing Sides
FF 540
CW Front Line 7
Ms. Marvel 8
Wolverine 47
Captain America 23
Civil War 5
Iron Man 13
CW Front Line 8
ASM 536
Black Panther 22
Captain America 24
CW War Crimes
CW Front Line 9
FF 541
Black Panther 23
Iron Man 14
Civil War 6
Iron Man/Captain America: Casualties of War 1
CW Front Line 10
ASM 537
FF 542
CW The Return
Black Panther 24
Civil War 7
ASM 538
CW Front Line 11
Black Panther 25
Captain America 25
Civil War The Confession 1

I felt like She-Hulk, Thunderbolts (surprisingly), Captain America (even more surprisingly), and Civil War Choosing Sides were all skippable. Civil War The Return is only interesting as a setup to Secret Invasion. Everything else was either a good story or directly contributed to the overall picture except maybe Ms. Marvel (but the whole reason I was reading the crossovers is they tied into Ms. Marvel, which I was trying to read through).

 

[kirk55555]

I just wasn't a fan of a whole comic about a bunch of reporters, especially when it was mostly lame Spider-Man supporting characters (from what little I remember, at least) so I didn't bother with it. Besides that I loved most of the event, although one or two of the tie-ins were admittedly not very important to the event overall.

Civil War was rough on Ms. Marvel. I like Carol Danvers a lot, but like Iron Man I still frequently think of the screwed up stuff she did in Civil War sometimes when reading stuff she's in. I'd really like to see actual resolution between Carol and Julia Carpenter (preferably with Carpenter getting some revenge), but its probably been too long for the Danvers/Carpenter stuff to ever be brought up again.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

It's not about that at all. It's about a series of intersecting stories, one of which involves Ben Urich (a Daredevil character) and Sally Floyd (maybe X-Men, dunno) investigating a government corruption angle and the Thunderbolts program. I can't remember if the main story explained where the name of the Prison (42) came from. I remember it there.

Then there was the story of Speedball and what was happening to him and how he was living with the guilt of what he caused combined with how people were reacting to him. This was the story that involved She-Hulk.

Then there was a story called Sleeper Cell, which involved Wonder Man and Atlantis and ultimately tied into the journalist story as well as the Wolverine comic's story (which was about the hunt for Nitro who actually killed all those people).

It's more cerebral comic book writing, but I'd go so far as to say it's just as good if not better than the main event comic.

 

[Guy Gardener]

This is how old Civli war is/was.

Sally scathingly (in Confession?) underlined how out of touch Steve Rogers was with America because he didn't have a "Myspace Page".

Although she did kick him so hard with that speech that he should have felt totally inclined to take an hour out of his life to vote for American idol.

Sally is awesome.

I hated how the Iron Man (apologists) writers, months, years after the fact, erased Tony's brain (Dirty Extremis infected his mind with Osrcorp firmware) and replaced it with a copy of himself from before the Civil War.

(And before he shagged Maria Hill. She more pissed than glad, but distinctly expressing both feelings.)

NuTony Stark (maybe a year or two junior, he hadn't been completely reliable at creating new restore points for his brain, and had to go back much further in time than he was really happy with.) did not agree with Classic Tony Stark, even though Nu Tony was really classicclassic Tony.

"Sigh"

Apologists!

Happy Hogan's teenage kid just showed up from the woodwork and he is slightly gamma irradiated.

 

[kirk55555]

It's not about that at all. It's about a series of intersecting stories, one of which involves Ben Urich (a Daredevil character) and Sally Floyd (maybe X-Men, dunno) investigating a government corruption angle and the Thunderbolts program. I can't remember if the main story explained where the name of the Prison (42) came from. I remember it there.

Then there was the story of Speedball and what was happening to him and how he was living with the guilt of what he caused combined with how people were reacting to him. This was the story that involved She-Hulk.

Then there was a story called Sleeper Cell, which involved Wonder Man and Atlantis and ultimately tied into the journalist story as well as the Wolverine comic's story (which was about the hunt for Nitro who actually killed all those people).

It's more cerebral comic book writing, but I'd go so far as to say it's just as good if not better than the main event comic.

It just wasn't for me. I never really liked the little I've seen of Ulrich, anyway. Plus, Speedball wasn't super compelling during and after Civil War as Penance, although Avengers Academy had a few interesting bits with him connected with his time as Penance. I was aware of the idiotic "Captain America doesn't have Myspace" thing. I didn't know it was from Frontline, but that alone confirms I would have hated the book.

As for the Prison, the name came from Mr. Fantastic. He (and maybe Tony Stark, but I can't remember if Stark was actually involved in the comic, or just in the Avengers: EMH cartoon version of the prison) thought of something like 101 ideas to change the world, and the negative Zone Prison was idea #42. The Fantastic Four Tie-in is what explained this, I think.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The Joke I thought I was telling, is that IF Captain America in 2015 did have a Myspace page, that he would be more out of touch with the pulse of the American people than if he'd never had one at all.

This is a joke Mr. Schuster was telling in (2009) season one of Glee, "these kids suck so hard that they spend all their time on Myspace!" 6 years later that man out of time (who is still slaving away on myspace) shit is even more true.

 

[Turtletrekker]

The "My Space" line in the first Iron Man movie sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

[Ethros]

^ Same for Kickass using MySpace in the first movie. It came out in 2010 and even then MySpace had been dead for a long, long time

 

[Guy Gardener]

kickass was an old comic (2004?). Changing things from the comic can sometimes require calling in legal unless they make up an imaginary company as a substitute. I remember smiling about some of the changes made to Scott Pilgrim The movie based on the comic that came out in the late 90s, yet had to seem relevant to children who were not born when it came out.

Remember what i said about Glee a couple hours ago? (3 posts up.)

The final two episodes aired today.

The second to last episode is set during the first few episodes of season one.

Principle Figgin's just said...

"Oh don't worry Sue, you are my star, you were on FOXsport.net, and besides, show quire won't last, Will only has 5 students, one of them is a cripple, and children these days arn't into singing to each other, they're too busy with their Friendster, Myspace, and blockbuster Video, these are things that are here to stay."



Although Iron Man is in Real time? 2007 for him was 2007 for us, and he kept pace with us. No skipped time, or squashed time. When Avengers 3 comes out, Tony Stark will have been Iron Man for probably 15 years.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I hated how the Iron Man (apologists) writers, months, years after the fact, erased Tony's brain (Dirty Extremis infected his mind with Osrcorp firmware) and replaced it with a copy of himself from before the Civil War.

Really? That's a shame. The thing about Tony Stark's actions is a few comics did a really good job explaining why he was doing it and why he thought it was right. You start with Amazing Spider-Man's pre-Civil War comics where Tony Stark hires Titanium Man to stage an attack in order to make it seem like heroes worked fine unregulated. That showed he was willing to break the rules for a good cause (in this case, stopping the act he later supported). But, when things went south and it was certainly going to pass, he supported the act to take control because it was better than the alternative. Later, in Iron Man's own comic, he had a speech about how people from the left and the right now thought he was supporting their causes, but he wasn't. He just wanted to make this thing work right.

The two bad things he did, imo, were the Thor Clone and 42 prison. The first was an accident. It led to someone's death, but that certainly wasn't the intent. The latter is tougher. Locking up people indefinitely seems reprehensible. But the whole point is a person not registered needs to register. The idea was to hold them until they register and then release them. It's an entirely utilitarian view of crime and punishment that, while it brings up shades of Guantanamo Bay, is actually nowhere near that extreme. Perhaps the alternative is to punish them for an active term, release them, have them break the law again, arrest them, and repeat. I can see why he thought that was a poor idea.

It just wasn't for me. I never really liked the little I've seen of Ulrich, anyway. Plus, Speedball wasn't super compelling during and after Civil War as Penance, although Avengers Academy had a few interesting bits with him connected with his time as Penance. I was aware of the idiotic "Captain America doesn't have Myspace" thing. I didn't know it was from Frontline, but that alone confirms I would have hated the book.

So you're saying that, based on things other than the comic itself, the comic isn't for you? I think that's an absurd way of thinking about it, particularly judging Penance from some other story. But it's a nearly ten year old comic storyline, so I don't actually care if you read it or not.

As for the Prison, the name came from Mr. Fantastic. He (and maybe Tony Stark, but I can't remember if Stark was actually involved in the comic, or just in the Avengers: EMH cartoon version of the prison) thought of something like 101 ideas to change the world, and the negative Zone Prison was idea #42. The Fantastic Four Tie-in is what explained this, I think.

Stark was involved in the comic. Pym too. The three of them came up with 100 ideas to change the world. The prison was number 42 (100 was come up with another 100 ideas). It was explained in EMH. But I don't recall the FF tie-in covering it. They were too busy with Thing going to France and fighting underground mole people or whatever. I'm pretty sure you're remembering it from EMH and the comic that covered it was Front Line. But I certainly could be wrong.

 

[kirk55555]

Stark was involved in the comic. Pym too. The three of them came up with 100 ideas to change the world. The prison was number 42 (100 was come up with another 100 ideas). It was explained in EMH. But I don't recall the FF tie-in covering it. They were too busy with Thing going to France and fighting underground mole people or whatever. I'm pretty sure you're remembering it from EMH and the comic that covered it was Front Line. But I certainly could be wrong.

Well, I remember an FF comic where Reed shows Susan his room that details all of his ideas on the list. I knew about the Prison 42 and the 100 ideas thing before Avengers: EMH was even on the air anyway (since I read Civil War about 6-8 months after it finished, when I first started to get access to more modern comics at the time, and EMH came out a few years later).

I obviously didn't remember if they were Reed's ideas alone in the comics, but he definitely brought up the list of ideas to Susan in the comics, he had a whole room for them, and I remember someone explaining the naming of Prison 42 in a Civil War tie-in that I actually read. The FF tie-ins did have a lot of Reed/Sue stuff in addition to The Thing going to France and teaming up with several very obvious DC Comics rip offs, so I assume the naming was talked about then, although its been awhile since I read the FF Civil War tie-ins (although I have read the whole event twice).

 

[DWF]

The comic book verison of the Civil War was pretty much a waste, the major events that happeend during it were largely and quickly erased. What's worse is that it made several characters look pretty bad. And really few people miss Speedball or Black Goliath, but of course if need be they can be brought back to life.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

It's not a waste if it's a good story regardless of whether it gets reset (although whether it's a good story is a debate worth having). The Wolverine comic was a good story. So was Black Panther. So was Front Line. The Amazing Spider-Man had moments, but it was mostly melodrama (it served the greater narrative). I thought the tension and action in the main story was good, but I can see opinions varying.