Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread
- Thread starter bbjeg
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No it doesn't. When the Ancient One shows banner the timeline demonstration, the timeline isn't split. It only splits after she pulls an infinity stone. Then after returning it, that blackened timeline doesn't turn golden, it disappears completely. Only messing with the stones can split a timeline artificially. (This is different from natural splits as seen in Loki.) Banner was always having a conversation with the Ancient one off screen in the Original Avengers Movie. Once Steve returns the stones he goes to the late 40s and has no way to create a different timeline. Whatever he did to try and help behind the scenes only resulted in exactly the timeline we saw unfold in the movies. Like Bruce said, you can't change your past.
Oops, someone's going to get a talking to.
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Yes, because the removal of the Infinity Stone is the catalyzing event in her explanation.
Uhh, you're mistaking a visual aid the Ancient One "drew" to make her point for something physically real. It was just the equivalent of drawing a sketch on a chalkboard, just with more magic/CGI. It can't be taken as binding evidence of how reality works. And again, the reason it was the Stone that made the change was because that was the point she was illustrating in that specific instance. It's nonsensical to think that means it's the only thing that can possibly have an effect.
Besides, the real evidence is in the dialogue, the way the Ancient One and Bruce explain it. That was the scripted intention of the writers. VFX artists often interpret things differently than the way the writers intended it, because they often prioritize what looks cool over narrative accuracy (the Secret Hideout Star Trek shows are perennially bad at this). In this case, the visual they came up with doesn't quite fit what was explained in the script -- and what happened later in the film, when Thanos, Gamora, and their fleet left their past without erasing their actions in the original MCU timeline. Their act of time travel split the timelines in itself, making them variants of the originals. And the variant of Gamora did not "disappear" when the Stones were returned, because, again, the whole damned point of the time travel theory used by Endgame's writers is that the Back to the Future-style fantasy model of people or things disappearing when their timeline changed is absolute nonsense. Bruce had that whole scene about the BTTF version of time travel is wrong, how you can't erase events that happened, only create alternate versions of them. So the visual effect was simply wrong, as proven by the entire rest of the film.
Wouldn't Bruce have already split off a new timeline the moment he arrived in the past?
No, it's really not. There is absolutely nothing in any of the movies that definitively says it was Steve.
Did we know she was coming back? I don't remember seeing her name in the cast reveal video, but the reporter there was treating as a known fact she was in Doomsday.Oops, someone's going to get a talking to.
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I mean, it's not really that big of a deal that she revealed her role in the film (especially if the rumor that we'll be getting a second round of casting soon). This screams making a mountain out of a molehill that only people who seek discord within Marvel fandom will care about.
I, for one, am glad she's returning. Shouldn't that be the news? That certainly seems like the only thing worth noting.
I, for one, am glad she's returning. Shouldn't that be the news? That certainly seems like the only thing worth noting.
Yeah, I don't see it being a huge deal. I'm just curious how the reporter found out, since she was the one who brought it up.
I'm glad she's coming back, I liked her a lot in Multiverse of Madness. Now I'm hoping Kate Bishop, and Kamala Khan will be back so we can get more set up for Champions/Young Avengers.
I'm glad she's coming back, I liked her a lot in Multiverse of Madness. Now I'm hoping Kate Bishop, and Kamala Khan will be back so we can get more set up for Champions/Young Avengers.
Yes, exactly. The Ancient One was simplifying her explanation for the convenience of making her point. Again, the whole point of her argument was that the split-off timeline already existed, as real as the original, and if Bruce took their Infinity Stones, the people in that branch timeline wouldn't be able to save themselves from the bad guys.
So are we saying our Steve basically replaced spilt universe Steve? So Basically it is like Back to the Future were Marty is living the life of another Marty who grew up with successful parents. Spilt universe Steve then I guess just dies or fades away or something so our Steve can take his place?
No.
2023!Steve went back to Peggy, married her, and stayed out of the limelight, especially after his 1940s self got thawed out and went on to do all of the things that he did until he made the decision to go back in time.
He absolutely could stop himself from trying to change the past because he would know that his,efforts would be pointless.
This argument is actually demeaning to Steve's character because it paints him as some kind of do-good knucklehead who can't exercise restraint.
Except if that is the rule then it's impossible to ever visit the same timeline twice because every act of time travel automatically creates a new timeline.
That would then mean that Steve's mission to 'return' the stones is nonsense, that version of the Ancient One is never getting her great weapon back, and Banner - the supposed time travel expert - looks like a moron for ever claiming or believing otherwise.
Or we accept the alternative that it's not that simple and that it is possible - at least sometimes - to time travel without automatically creating a new timeline. Which then means there is no reason Steve couldn't have done it, as long him doing so didn't change his past. And if he had always done it, then he and his decisions were always part of the past, so therefore him being in the past would obviously not change anything.
You're just wrong on this. You've chosen to see it through a particular narrative lens and refuse to accept that there are other possible interpretations.
It was removing the stones that broke the timeline as explained in the movie.
I believe that Steve would understand that any actions he took would have to maintain the history he knows. He could help people on a small scale perhaps, but could never return to being Captain America.
But by getting involved with Peggy he already is going to change things. I mean he wasn't around for her tv series so that is already a big change to the timeline.
Thank You! You can't replace a bad timeline if there is always a version you didn't show up in. @Christopher give me an example of a character who changes their past that doesn't involve an infinity stone. This may involve an analysis of the Loki show, however the end result of thet show is the original timeline, so nothing was changed.
We don't know what year Steve returned. If he returns in 1948 there is no problem.