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Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

What grade would you give the Marvel Cinematic Universe? (Ever-Changing Question)


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So assuming it keeps it's R rating there won't be any MCU movies for everyone to watch next year, while Sony will have three of its movies. (And DC none.)

And does Disney really think there's an apatite for FOUR movies in 2025?

Cap 4 heading back for months of reshoots is hardly promising.

Blade will probably need a mobility scooter by the time his movie comes out.

And I have a feeling Armor Wars, Young Avengers and Shang Chi 2 will just never happen at this point.
 
I would have thought Captain America would come out in 2024 too since they'd finished filming and some thought it would take Deadpool's May slot. Are we forgetting about any other movies?
Anyway, at least we are getting Deadpool 3. That's the one i'm crazy fired up to see.

I'm surprised they didn't pull Cap 4 forward a bit and hit Christmas? Then again I have lousy understanding of release schedules so no idea what it might have been up against then. I wonder how many of these four will have any connection to Kang? I'm guessing Cap 4 and Thunderbolts are likely to be linked in some way, even if just tangentially.
 
I'm surprised they didn't pull Cap 4 forward a bit and hit Christmas? Then again I have lousy understanding of release schedules so no idea what it might have been up against then.

It apparently tested terribly and will be doing extensive reshoots in the spring.
 
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I'm surprised they didn't pull Cap 4 forward a bit and hit Christmas? Then again I have lousy understanding of release schedules so no idea what it might have been up against then.
I wouldn't have imagined there would be much competition in 2024 with most studios in the same boat in regards to having to pull movies from the schedule.

I wonder how many of these four will have any connection to Kang? I'm guessing Cap 4 and Thunderbolts are likely to be linked in some way, even if just tangentially.
Cap 4 and Thunderbolts seem to be closely connected. Anything to do with Kang will probably be post credits. There's still F4 to come after so the stronger connection would probably be there.

And I have a feeling Armor Wars, Young Avengers and Shang Chi 2 will just never happen at this point.
Not until after Secret Wars. It seems that the Kang Dynasty will be connected to Shang-Chi and he will play a big part
 
And I have a feeling Armor Wars, Young Avengers and Shang Chi 2 will just never happen at this point.

I think Shang Chi will happen but the rest is a bit vague - Young Avengers I think were being set up for Kang Dynasty and secret war but if The Marvels bombs as badly as it appears it is going to - how do you build a franchise around a character the public don't seem to care about (Ms. Marvel)?

I hadn't know about Sabra which is going to quite a problem in many markets...
 
Okay... after my extreme disappointment with Loki season 2 coming right after my extreme disappointment with Secret Invasion, I'm starting to rethink my position about the MCU not having troubles. They do seem to be in a slump on the TV side, at least. But I still don't think the film slate in Phase 4-5 has been any worse overall than in previous phases. There have been a few that weren't as strong as they could've been, but that's always been the case (Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2, The Dark World, etc.).


how do you build a franchise around a character the public don't seem to care about (Ms. Marvel)?

It's strange that they don't. The comics character is hugely popular with readers, the TV show captures the comics' spirit well, and Iman Vellani embodies the character delightfully, given that she basically is Kamala Khan in real life. Even the more negative reviews I'm seeing of The Marvels agree that she's the highlight of the film.

I just hope Marvel doesn't do the usual Hollywood thing of panicking and overreacting over a few bad numbers. They didn't do that in the past. As the Hulk proves, they don't have to abandon characters just because they appeared in less-than-successful productions. A character can transcend a single story, especially in a shared universe like this.
 
Cap 4 and Thunderbolts seem to be closely connected. Anything to do with Kang will probably be post credits. There's still F4 to come after so the stronger connection would probably be there.

With the MCU, everything is supposed to be connected (even when it does not work), but I would hope Cap4 and Thunderbolts would tell their own stories (more earthy) without being shoehorned into anything related to Kang.

....but I know that's not the case, at least if the rumor mill has merit.
 
But I don't see what point you're trying to make here. Of course there are certain stories that work in one setting but not in others. How is that unusual or bad?

My point is, the MCU has established years of internal chronology which differs from our own world, even if by less than Star Trek. This means that the stories you can tell within the MCU are now somewhat constrained, which leads to...

Depends on the context. Maybe they're the only one in a position to address it, e.g. the Ant-Wasp Family were the only ones in the Quantum Realm and in a position to stop Kang. Maybe it develops fast enough that they don't have time to call for backup. Anyway, this is an issue that shared-hero universes have always had to deal with. It's a credibility issue, yes, but it's hardly unique to the MCU, and it's hardly a deal-breaker.

I didn't say it was a deal-breaker, but there were cases (like in Secret Invasion, and to a lesser extent, Eternals) where it did kind of stretch credulity.

I simply object to the facile and absurd notion that the only way to make a villain threatening is to have them kill the hero. Since when? Hell, the Joker appeared to die in most of his early stories. He lost over and over again, but he was still an effective villain. So why should it be any different for Kang?

But, that's what Marvel did with Thanos. He murked Loki at the beginning of Infinity War exactly to establish he was a big enough threat to take out the antagonist of the first Avengers movie - alone.

I'd also note that it's a very common trope in fiction to have a central character - often the older mentor figure - killed by the antagonist in order to show the level of threat.

That seems needlessly negative. Life doesn't have to be a zero-sum game, especially in heroic narratives. I mean, doesn't it cheapen the idea of a noble sacrifice if it has to happen in every single case? Doesn't it just become routine and ordinary then?

Not every sacrifice has to be the "ultimate" one. But when heroes give up something due to their actions - even if it's something as simple as a friendship irrevocably broken - it makes for a much more memorable ending.
 
My point is, the MCU has established years of internal chronology which differs from our own world, even if by less than Star Trek. This means that the stories you can tell within the MCU are now somewhat constrained

Which is true of many fictional universes, so I don't see the issue.


I didn't say it was a deal-breaker, but there were cases (like in Secret Invasion, and to a lesser extent, Eternals) where it did kind of stretch credulity.

Yes, sometimes it can. No doubt Secret Invasion suffered badly by not including any major superheroes other than Fake Rhodey. But that's a critique of a single work. It doesn't translate to a systemic failure of the whole franchise. It's an issue in any shared hero universe, as I said. Why doesn't Superman pop over to Gotham on his lunch hour and clean up the city? Because Batman stories need Batman to be the hero.

As I keep stressing, the continuity between series is supposed to be secondary to the needs of the individual series. It's there to support and supplement them, and like any other story device in fiction, you set it aside if it gets in the way of the story you need to tell. Continuity exists to serve story, not the other way around. And yeah, sometimes it doesn't make sense, but it doesn't make sense that Superman can fly, or that Batman is still able to fight at peak level after all the cumulative injuries he's received. Stories rely on the audience's willing suspension of disbelief.


But, that's what Marvel did with Thanos. He murked Loki at the beginning of Infinity War exactly to establish he was a big enough threat to take out the antagonist of the first Avengers movie - alone.

I never said that device couldn't work. What I object to is the facile notion that it's the only possible way to establish a villain's threat.


I'd also note that it's a very common trope in fiction to have a central character - often the older mentor figure - killed by the antagonist in order to show the level of threat.

"Common" doesn't mean "right." Often it just means that a lot of storytellers don't try hard enough to find alternatives. Personally, I find that relying on character death to make a story point is all too often a cheap shortcut and a substitute for more creative solutions.


Not every sacrifice has to be the "ultimate" one. But when heroes give up something due to their actions - even if it's something as simple as a friendship irrevocably broken - it makes for a much more memorable ending.

It can. Doesn't mean it absolutely has to in every case. I mean, why the hell would you want a tragic ending in an Ant-Man movie? It's like the old saw about Shakespeare plays. You know it's a tragedy if everyone dies at the end, and it's a comedy if everyone gets married at the end. Comedy entails happy endings, usually. Unless it's a dark comedy, which Ant-Man isn't.
 
Marvel Studios‘ sequel, The Marvels, has clocked around $6.5M in Thursday night previews we hear from sources. Disney will be reporting their official figure this morning and we’ll update you then. Previews began at 3PM.

The fear out there by many is that this $200M budgeted sequel to 2019’s Captain Marvel –which stands as the highest grossing female superhero movie of all-time–could clock the lowest start ever stateside for a Marvel Studios movie; lower than The Incredible Hulk (which was a Universal release before Disney absorbed the MCU) which had a $55.4M start. While tracking took its projections down from $80M to $60M for The Marvels, there is a concern out there that The Marvels could see a $40M+ start.


https://deadline.com/2023/11/box-office-the-marvels-1235599363/
 
No one gets up when a comic movie ends until the credits are over
Once credits hit, I'm out. So, no, I don't stay for the credits. I got places to be.
I'm not sure myself since I've stayed caught up. I don't know how to fairly and objectively say if it would work as well without that background. Would I enjoy The Marvels as much if I hadn't seen Captain Marvel and the Infinity Saga or the Kamala Khan series, I'm not so sure.
I'll let you know since I haven't seen the other projects but might see Marvels out of curiosity.
I think Shang Chi will happen but the rest is a bit vague - Young Avengers I think were being set up for Kang Dynasty and secret war but if The Marvels bombs as badly as it appears it is going to - how do you build a franchise around a character the public don't seem to care about (Ms. Marvel)?
You keep going until you find the one people grab on to.
 
Okay... after my extreme disappointment with Loki season 2 coming right after my extreme disappointment with Secret Invasion, I'm starting to rethink my position about the MCU not having troubles.

It's ironic. Although I found "Secret Invasion" disappointing, I would still . . . you know what? I would rank it at a tie with "Loki" for third place. "Loki" could have ranked higher for me if it were not for Season One, which I found disappointing. If it were not for Season Two, I would have ranked "Loki" below "Secret Invasion".

As for the MCU, well you all know my views on it. So I won't repeat myself.
 
It's strange that they don't. The comics character is hugely popular with readers, the TV show captures the comics' spirit well, and Iman Vellani embodies the character delightfully, given that she basically is Kamala Khan in real life. Even the more negative reviews I'm seeing of The Marvels agree that she's the highlight of the film.

It's a bit of an off one indeed - it appears that the viewing figures for Ms Marvel were not great so it starts with a low base and then the film had nothing to build off - there is no multiplier. The actor is great so I suspect that because the people who do like her, like her - she will still appear but the character's importance in upcoming films will be diminished. She will be in them but she will not be used to try and pull audiences in.
 
It's a bit of an off one indeed - it appears that the viewing figures for Ms Marvel were not great so it starts with a low base and then the film had nothing to build off - there is no multiplier. The actor is great so I suspect that because the people who do like her, like her - she will still appear but the character's importance in upcoming films will be diminished. She will be in them but she will not be used to try and pull audiences in.

I still think it's premature to assume that a slow start must doom her forever. Fortunes can shift. Again, look at the Hulk. Ruffalo would've probably gotten a solo movie by now if the rights business with Universal didn't get in the way.
 
It's a bit of an off one indeed - it appears that the viewing figures for Ms Marvel were not great so it starts with a low base and then the film had nothing to build off - there is no multiplier. The actor is great so I suspect that because the people who do like her, like her - she will still appear but the character's importance in upcoming films will be diminished. She will be in them but she will not be used to try and pull audiences in.


Even if "Ms. Marvel" proves to be a flop, I'll still go see it and judge it for myself. But I fear that Hollywood would use this as an excuse to cut back on more female-led action movies and TV productions . . . and perhaps less POC-led productions. Then it's going to be shows and movies dominated even more so by straight white men. Like some kind of major setback.
 
It's a bit of an off one indeed - it appears that the viewing figures for Ms Marvel were not great so it starts with a low base and then the film had nothing to build off - there is no multiplier. The actor is great so I suspect that because the people who do like her, like her - she will still appear but the character's importance in upcoming films will be diminished. She will be in them but she will not be used to try and pull audiences in.

Breaking Bad didn't have great ratings for most of its run, compared to "Huge Success" TV Shows.
 
Even if "Ms. Marvel" proves to be a flop, I'll still go see it and judge it for myself. But I fear that Hollywood would use this as an excuse to cut back on more female-led action movies and TV productions . . . and perhaps less POC-led productions. Then it's going to be shows and movies dominated even more so by straight white men. Like some kind of major setback.

So the trade analysis of the previews is that the small audience was overwhelming male and the women who did attend were mainly over 25. So one of the challenges seems for whatever reason the character does not connect with young women.

Maybe they need to cast Taylor Swift - although as who I am not sure
 
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