Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

[Christopher]

Well, the actors strike is on. Time to push out the release schedule again!

Although the consensus seems to be that an actors' strike is likely to force AMPTP to resolve things quickly. With a writers' strike, they could delude themselves into thinking they could get by on stockpiled scripts or getting non-union writers to cross the line. If the actors aren't working, it shuts down everything instantly and puts enormously more pressure on the studios to come to a decent settlement.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Bob Iger admits that zeal to produce content for Disney+ hurt Marvel (as well as Pixar). https://www.thewrap.com/bob-iger-marvel-pixar-disappointments-disney-plus/

 

[kirk55555]

Bob Iger admits that zeal to produce content for Disney+ hurt Marvel (as well as Pixar). https://www.thewrap.com/bob-iger-marvel-pixar-disappointments-disney-plus/

I mean, they barely produce Marvel TV stuff, maybe 2-3 shows a year at most, so I don't think thats right. They've also had more decent to great shows then bad shows, I'd really only put Falcon & Winter Soldier and She-Hulk in the bad category, and both could have been good if they had hired good writers/showrunners and not the hacks they went with for those shows.

As for Pixar, its the same thing. Too many terrible writers, combined with too many of the same kind of bad films in a row (precocious child/children go on a life affirming adventure, What if ____ Had Feelings, Person Transforms into Animal for stupid Reasons) really brought them down, they need someone to filter through the ideas more and actually reject the bad ones.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I mean, they barely produce Marvel TV stuff, maybe 2-3 shows a year at most, so I don't think thats right. They've also had more decent to great shows then bad shows, I'd really only put Falcon & Winter Soldier and She-Hulk in the bad category, and both could have been good if they had hired good writers/showrunners and not the hacks they went with for those shows.

As for Pixar, its the same thing. Too many terrible writers, combined with too many of the same kind of bad films in a row (precocious child/children go on a life affirming adventure, What if ____ Had Feelings, Person Transforms into Animal for stupid Reasons) really brought them down, they need someone to filter through the ideas more and actually reject the bad ones.

There were five in 2021. Four in 2022, counting the Holiday special (but not counting I am Groot). 2023 being slower is because they already decided to slow down to allow for better quality control. And all of these are made by the same Marvel Studios division that makes the movies (and the number of movies per year went up in phase iv as well). Altogether it was a huge increase in the amount of ongoing projects.

 

[The Knappos]

There were five in 2021. Four in 2022, counting the Holiday special (but not counting I am Groot). 2023 being slower is because they already decided to slow down to allow for better quality control. And all of these are made by the same Marvel Studios division that makes the movies (and the number of movies per year went up in phase iv as well). Altogether it was a huge increase in the amount of ongoing projects.

That doesn’t account for the fact that a set of them were supposed to have been finished and premier in 2020 until Covid had other plans. 2021 and 2022 were denser because of the delays.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

That doesn’t account for the fact that a set of them were supposed to have been finished and premier in 2020 until Covid had other plans. 2021 and 2022 were denser because of the delays.

I'm pretty sure the original plan was always four per year. 2021 had an extra because of covid, but it was never going to be just 2 shows a year. Not until they decided to slow down production in general.

 

[The Knappos]

I'm pretty sure the original plan was always four per year. 2021 had an extra because of covid, but it was never going to be just 2 shows a year. Not until they decided to slow down production in general.

You’re probably right actually. Somewhere around Covid/Phase 4, I lessened how diligently I remembered stuff through self defence. 1 show a quarter and near year round weekly episodes to keep subscribers from lapsing their subs.

 

[Samurai8472]

So thanks to Disney and Marvel they basically saturated franchises to the point of no excitement/anticipation.

Remember when Star Wars was something special to watch? Now you've Andor,Boba, Ashoka, Bad Batch and Obi-wan.

They also nose dived the movies with the last 3 Skywalker movies that didn't get enough time to bake/fine tune details.

 

[Dee1891]

I mean, they barely produce Marvel TV stuff, maybe 2-3 shows a year at most, so I don't think thats right. They've also had more decent to great shows then bad shows, I'd really only put Falcon & Winter Soldier and She-Hulk in the bad category, and both could have been good if they had hired good writers/showrunners and not the hacks they went with for those shows.

As for Pixar, its the same thing. Too many terrible writers, combined with too many of the same kind of bad films in a row (precocious child/children go on a life affirming adventure, What if ____ Had Feelings, Person Transforms into Animal for stupid Reasons) really brought them down, they need someone to filter through the ideas more and actually reject the bad ones.

The only DisneyPlus Marvel shows I actually liked were WandaVision and Hawkeye. That's about it.

 

[Skywalker]

Most of the Disney+ shows should have been movies instead.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Most of the Disney+ shows should have been movies instead.

Definitely Moon Knight, Hawkeye, and Falcon and the Winter Soldier. All three of them would have been very good movies.

Maybe even Ms. Marvel if they'd simplified the story.

Bob Iger admits that zeal to produce content for Disney+ hurt Marvel (as well as Pixar). https://www.thewrap.com/bob-iger-marvel-pixar-disappointments-disney-plus/

I feel like Bob is lying his butt off because profits were slightly less but still in the staggering. This seems more like damage control from the Writer + Actor strike.

 

[Starkers]

The only DisneyPlus Marvel shows I actually liked were WandaVision and Hawkeye. That's about it.

Those are still my top two by some distance.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Those are still my top two by some distance.

Ms. Marvel was my favorite even with a couple of stinker episodes.

 

[Christopher]

Definitely Moon Knight, Hawkeye, and Falcon and the Winter Soldier. All three of them would have been very good movies.

Maybe even Ms. Marvel if they'd simplified the story.

Wow, I feel just the opposite -- Ms. Marvel should've been longer, and the others were fine as they were. I don't accept the notion that movies are somehow a superior medium to TV series. That's a notion that made sense when I was young and most TV was kind of schlocky, but for the past few decades, TV has been by far the superior medium in terms of writing quality. And movies don't have enough room to explore a story and characters in the same kind of depth that a TV series can. Their only advantage is that they have higher budgets and longer shooting schedules and can thus deliver greater spectacle, but that's less of a factor now in these days of limited-run prestige TV series with massive budgets. I don't see how any of the cited series would've been improved by more spectacle or less character development.

 

[Dee1891]

Most of the Disney+ shows should have been movies instead.

I think one might as well say the same about the Marvel Disney+ shows. In fact, I was discussing this yesterday with a few relatives of mine.

 

[kirk55555]

So thanks to Disney and Marvel they basically saturated franchises to the point of no excitement/anticipation.

Remember when Star Wars was something special to watch? Now you've Andor,Boba, Ashoka, Bad Batch and Obi-wan.

They also nose dived the movies with the last 3 Skywalker movies that didn't get enough time to bake/fine tune details.

I don't believe in over saturation. It makes no sense to go "I want less of a franchise I enjoy", especially with two franchises with a literally uncountable amount of stories to tell like the MCU and Star Wars. The problem has never been, and will never be, having too many productions. The problem, if there is one, is strictly in the quality of the productions, and the people working on them. Also, two of the last three "Skywalker" movies were excellent, and the last one only messed up by listening to the loud minority of idiots that hated TLJ.

Seriously, fuck something being "special" to watch, I much prefer regular content to getting, what, two hours of content (aka 1 movie) every 2-3 years for a few years, then a 15-20 year gap before getting more like Star Wars was pre-Disney. Star Wars is literally a whole universe, and the MCU is built on the back of 80+ years of comics, both franchises should be getting more projects then they have been, but ones that are maybe a bit more selective when it comes to choosing showrunners/writers.

 

[Set Harth]

Remember when Star Wars was something special to watch? Now you've Andor,Boba, Ashoka, Bad Batch and Obi-wan.

But none of those came out at the same time. ( and it's Ahsoka, not Ashoka )

 

[fireproof78]

Remember when Star Wars was something special to watch? Now you've Andor,Boba, Ashoka, Bad Batch and Obi-wan.

And? I still enjoyed them, found them special and talked about them the day after with fans.

Strikes me as pretty darn special.

And even if not, who cares? Not everything has to be special.

Seriously, fuck something being "special" to watch, I much prefer regular content to getting, what, two hours of content (aka 1 movie) every 2-3 years for a few years, then a 15-20 year gap before getting more like Star Wars was pre-Disney. Star Wars is literally a whole universe, and the MCU is built on the back of 80+ years of comics, both franchises should be getting more projects then they have been, but ones that are maybe a bit more selective when it comes to choosing showrunners/writers.

Well, we were bound to agree about something. Yup, fuck being "special" to watch. Special comes from the experience not a drought of content.

 

[Christopher]

Ms. Marvel star Iman Vellani is going to co-write a new Ms. Marvel comic (along with one of her show's writer-producers, Sabir Pirzada), which seems a lot like the actor's journey paralleling the character's, a fan becoming the real thing.

https://ew.com/books/iman-vellani-writing-new-ms-marvel-comic/

Also, though the comics' Kamala is still an Inhuman and will retain her original stretching/shapeshifting power set, she's somehow also a mutant now, in line with her MCU identity.

(And yes, Kamala died recently in the comics, but of course they were going to resurrect her before The Marvels came out.)

 

[Charles Phipps]

Wow, I feel just the opposite -- Ms. Marvel should've been longer, and the others were fine as they were. I don't accept the notion that movies are somehow a superior medium to TV series. That's a notion that made sense when I was young and most TV was kind of schlocky, but for the past few decades, TV has been by far the superior medium in terms of writing quality. And movies don't have enough room to explore a story and characters in the same kind of depth that a TV series can. Their only advantage is that they have higher budgets and longer shooting schedules and can thus deliver greater spectacle, but that's less of a factor now in these days of limited-run prestige TV series with massive budgets. I don't see how any of the cited series would've been improved by more spectacle or less character development.

Speaking to you from the shared writer's perspective, television is fantastic now and prestige TV is good but the case of the Marvel Disney+ shows are a specifically unhappy medium for multiple reasons both creatively and technically as to why I think this is the case.

+ The series are very short. Which means that the amount filmed is not that big of a difference from 2:00 to 2:30 hour movie at six episodes to begin with.

+ The pacing for the series have generally been extremely breakneck and then suddenly slow down for unnecessary plots because they are paced like the MCU then filler is added.

+ Disney+ is actually a far more limited audience than movie theaters and far less people are going to be able to see Moon Knight or Ms. Marvel than movies that can be seen on DVDs (they still exist), in theaters, or other movie services. This also hurts the MCU as a whole for anyone who didn't see Wanda Vision and is wondering why Wanda suddenly has kids now she's obsessed with.

+ I feel these particular projects would have benefited from the movie touch. A lot of people felt Falcon and the WInter Soldier would have been more enjoyable if it hadn't had time to ruminate on its shallow politics.

+ Financially, streaming just isn't nearly as lucrative as Disney has wanted it to be and the current model is forcing people to stay subscribed to keep up witrh content - which is bad for both the provider and the viewer.

YMMV.