Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread
- Thread starter bbjeg
- Start date
How is the fourth wall handled in the comics? Does She-Hulk break the wall when she's appears in other comics? I imagine Deadpool does though I don't know for sure.
A couple of odd thoughts on the subject, the She-Hulk series seems to imply that she no longer has the ability to go into and out of the fourth wall as K.E.V.I.N. has fixed that, though I imagine she will still talk to the audience. Also, since K.E.V.I.N. does not exist in our universe (at least best we know...) does She-Hulk break the fourth wall into another fictional universe and we're still safely watching unobserved from the fourth wall of that one?
I do get how one can find it harder to maintain the suspension of disbelief but I feel as if they didn't do that people would be complaining that it's not true to the comics (and probably dragging the MCU as being formulaic and risk-averse...).
A couple of odd thoughts on the subject, the She-Hulk series seems to imply that she no longer has the ability to go into and out of the fourth wall as K.E.V.I.N. has fixed that, though I imagine she will still talk to the audience. Also, since K.E.V.I.N. does not exist in our universe (at least best we know...) does She-Hulk break the fourth wall into another fictional universe and we're still safely watching unobserved from the fourth wall of that one?
I do get how one can find it harder to maintain the suspension of disbelief but I feel as if they didn't do that people would be complaining that it's not true to the comics (and probably dragging the MCU as being formulaic and risk-averse...).
I can only speak for myself here, but I rarely watch anything non-fantasy, so I haven't seen those "better handled" shows. As a woman and a geek, I felt She-Hulk spoke *directly to and for me*. I felt truly seen. And heard.
Just my .02.
Not actually true. Wolverine's longevity comes from his healing factor. The adamantium enhancement was a 20th century event for him when he was Projext X and his healing factor made him survive the process where others have died ( and since then his healing factor has been working on overdrive constantly to fight off the lethal effects of the adamantium on his body).
Right now it's all speculation as adamantium hasn't even been mentioned yet in the MCU, much less X-Men and specifically Wolverine. They only recently introduced Kamala Khan as an official mutant, dipped the toe in the water so to speak.
So i wouldn't hang onto the comics lore too much with the MCU, because Marvel adapts these to fit the movies and not the other way around as we all know so anything goes. It entirely depends what the MCU wants and all they need are the concepts and keywords of the comics because people are familiar with these and want to see a Wolverine character with healing powers, adamantium skeleton and claws and a big temper plus awesome combat skills. Doesn't matter if the actors is huge, small, hairy or not - he just needs to kick ass like Jackman's Wolverine did.
I do keep forgetting it’s an alloy. So I guess it’s whatever the steel is bonded with to create the adamantium that the Celestial would be the source for, and that could mean that there could be other very, very scarce pockets of it.
Im sure there’s a whiteboard with post-it’s all over it which is much clearer than my fevered ramblings.
Just as well that I didn’t say Wolverine’s longevity is owed to the adamantium then, right? What I said was, when he comes into the scene, he’s had the adamantium (and memory loss) for years. Long enough to have settled into his identity and life as Logan, having forgotten he was ever James Howlett.
But there's no reason why the story *has* to start there.
We could meet him as he escapes from Weapon X. Or before he ever even gets the metal claws. There's only a finite amount of screentime they're going to get out of him before the actor inevitably starts to age out of playing an immortal character. And the comics have been so obsessed with using him that there are literally thousands of comics that could be solid source material for him, with those stories spread out very broadly across centuries of time both before and after he got the adamantium skeleton.
The only reason anyone even thinks of this as his 'natural' starting point is just because it happens to be where Claremont started with him, but there's no reason why that has to be definitive for all time. Just like people no longer tend to think of the grandstanding megalomaniac as Magneto's natural starting point, but instead prefer to go back earlier to the holocaust backstory which wasn't actually added to the character until long after his first appearance.
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There's only so much non-spoiler material they have to use for their trailers/TV spots, that's why.
You said this:
I understood that you meant the adamantium was responsible for his longevity as he had to have it before the dead Celestial as a source came into being. Might have been a misunderstanding on my part.
It could very well be that the first time the character is introduced he doesn't have the adamanatium yet, just the healing factor and his bone claws. If they follow the MCU mold Wolverine is an important enough character to warrant a solo movie amongst others before they launch into a full team movie, so his solo movies could very well show how he gets the adamantium.
You mixed a couple different people's quotes together there.
The simpler approach is just not to link adamantium to the Celestials at all. I don't get where that idea came from, but it seems to be just a wild rumor. It's never worth devoting thought to mere rumors, since they're more likely than not to be untrue. And this one in particular just seems like a bad idea.
I still think it would make more sense to make adamantium an alloy of vibranium, since that's already a major part of MCU mythology. Or, heck, just simplify it and say Wolvie's claws and skeleton are made of vibranium. That's what they already did with Cap's shield, after all. We don't need another indestructible super-metal in the MCU when we've already got one. The advantage of adaptations over the original comics is that you can distill and streamline the often overcomplicated, cluttered, or redundant concepts into something more elegant.
I still think it would make more sense to make adamantium an alloy of vibranium, since that's already a major part of MCU mythology. Or, heck, just simplify it and say Wolvie's claws and skeleton are made of vibranium. That's what they already did with Cap's shield, after all. We don't need another indestructible super-metal in the MCU when we've already got one. The advantage of adaptations over the original comics is that you can distill and streamline the often overcomplicated, cluttered, or redundant concepts into something more elegant.
IF, and that's a big IF, the rumors are true..... They might think that they really want to work in the word adamantium in there and have it connected to vibranium as something very rare. So if vibranium came from space, have adamantium come from space as well. AND, ofcourse, connect it to previous MCU material to make everything connect. So, dead Celestial.
Now, that's just my neuro-divergent brain working overtime to try and think of what they might think.
Because honestly, I'm with you. Have Wolverine's claws and skeleton be vibranium. Have people wonder where it came from. Is there a third source, besides Wakanda and.... fuck I can't remember the MCU's new name for where Namor came from and dont wanna google right now. There's a plotline as well. How many different places to get vibranium are there? Is it really that rare? Would countries be willing to destroy other sources of it to maintain monopoly?
Hell, there's a socio-political plotline that could be interesting.
It's Talokan, though it really should be Tlalocan. I guess they figured that was too hard to pronounce.
That's not the MCU method; any item or event tied to a larger character is never treated as so random an issue, and said larger character being Wolverine, the MCU PTB--more than likely--will weave this through a few films, milking it for all its worth until Wolverine makes his debut. It just doesn't need to start in a CA film--the only MCU "chapter" that has been largely consistent with its tone and type of stories, with the only official tease of CA4's plot (from an article linked several pages ago) described as a "paranoid political thriller", which--in the cultural sense--calls to mind a far different kind of story than one involving Celestials, Adamantium, etc.
Breaking the 4th wall (and its obvious implications) is happening as part of a series, with characters who will interact with others in the series. Its not an isolated event.
...until Dr. Strange was the catalyst for the major events in Infinity War, No Way Home....
If you recall, up to a point in Age of Ultron, Wanda was using her powers against CA.
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Yeah, but that was usually for the bigger concepts, that need more of an explanation. We didn't get a whole movie devoted to the vibranium that they made Cap's shield out of.
But if it only happens with those characters, then it doesn't really matter.
And those were stories involving Dr. Strange and Wanda, which is my whole point, that stuff has only happened in stories that involve them.
Was it?
Obviously vibranium will be a prominent element in any Black Panther movie, but the plot of Black Panther wasn't in any way about vibranium. It was about position, family, heritage, tradition and the desire to make Wakanda go to war with the entire world to liberate all ethnic African people from colonialist nations.
It also came out more than half a decade after Cap's shield was introduced and after the basic info about vibranium had already been explained, though it did add some more detailed info about what vibranium can do when its used in more nuanced ways than just as a frisbee (which was something Ultron already lectured us about in Age of Ultron, too).
Yeah sorry you're right, but it did explain it more than any other movie.