Hence the mining?
Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread
- Thread starter bbjeg
- Start date
Maybe cemeteries will pay a premium for headstone?
"Stone" covers a lot of ground. (Pun intended)
Rock on.
I'm not sure if that works with the sort of style that Falcon And The WInter Soldier had, but I really would love a movie that follows up on the Celestial.
I mean ffs.... There's an enormous dead alien body sticking out of the planet. This will have a huge impact, like this plot would suggest. And only a quick line on a screen in She-Hulk has done anything with it. Every production since has basically ignored it and even though I really didn't like Celestials that much, it's been driving me nuts.
I thought the Thunderbolts was the movie that was going to be dealing with the Celestial?
Jeremy Renner is critical but stable after a snowplough accident. Not sure if he was scheduled to be in any Marvel productions in the short term but either way I’m sure we all wish him a full and swift recovery https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-64143964
I think he's done with the MCU mostly, maybe a short cameo here and there.
Wish him all the best.
I think the problem is that...well, folks have become impatient. They wanted something done IMMEDIATELY about the dead Celestial.
For all we know, Eternals happened chronologically the last movie in Phase 4 and that's why no one reacted, because it hadn't happened yet. We just need to be patient.
I think people also forgot that the Infinity Saga took at least 10 movies to really start going, mostly in end credit scenes. Phase 2's Guardians was the first one whose story revolved around the stones primarily and featured Thanos for the first time beyond End Credits and it was the 10th movie.
Then a couple of movies more with self contained stories to continue existing characters or introduce new ones until the storyline came to conclusion in Infinity War and Endgame.
People have become impatient, including me but when we can look back in a few years and see the Multiverse Saga as a whole it might turn out not to be that bad, especially because quite a bit of that saga is also carried through in the TV shows.
Marvel can easily continue this for another 10+ years - new characters like Shang Chi only have one movie or TV show under their belt so there's room and the next big banger with the X-Men/Mutants in general and Fantastic Four franchises are yet to come.
Regarding the rumor about Captain America 4 having some plot concerning the use of the Celestials' body as a source of Adamantium, this sounds like it flies in the face of how CA4's plot has been described so far: a "paranoid political thriller" which does not scream Celestials. After the Cap entries--including The Falcon and the Winter Soldier--were the most grounded of all MCU productions (even with its most consistent themes of Super Soldier programs tied to sociopolitical abuses / terrorism), dropping Adamantium in there reads like its (ultimately) a diving board plot to jump to the appearance of a certain character who will join the MCU.
Some might argue that the title New World Order can refer to an alien resource / arms race of a kind, but I'd rather see NWO--in a Cap film with the kind of unique perspective Sam Wilson has apart from many characters--mean a greater abuse of government power he was trying to address in TFATWS, but--it would seem--failed to change much. Moreover, no one knows who Sharon was speaking to regarding special weapons dealing in her final TFATWS scene, but I was hoping she would prove to be tied to a greater threat playing into the movie's title.
I understand how you viewed the series, and of curse it's fine if you felt it was a successful take on the issues. That said, I maintain the rot of toxic masculinity / workplace / societal abuses of women is better handled (sans a fandom critique) in non-fantasy TV dramas, where more time is usually spent on the day-to-day, festering mistreatment from season to season without a fantasy element. I'm not certain a second season of She-Hulk will continue addressing the issues, or will it--by franchise necessity--catapult Jennifer into plots leading to the next phase's main arc.
Some might argue that the title New World Order can refer to an alien resource / arms race of a kind, but I'd rather see NWO--in a Cap film with the kind of unique perspective Sam Wilson has apart from many characters--mean a greater abuse of government power he was trying to address in TFATWS, but--it would seem--failed to change much. Moreover, no one knows who Sharon was speaking to regarding special weapons dealing in her final TFATWS scene, but I was hoping she would prove to be tied to a greater threat playing into the movie's title.
I understand how you viewed the series, and of curse it's fine if you felt it was a successful take on the issues. That said, I maintain the rot of toxic masculinity / workplace / societal abuses of women is better handled (sans a fandom critique) in non-fantasy TV dramas, where more time is usually spent on the day-to-day, festering mistreatment from season to season without a fantasy element. I'm not certain a second season of She-Hulk will continue addressing the issues, or will it--by franchise necessity--catapult Jennifer into plots leading to the next phase's main arc.
There's impatient and there's a massive plot hole just left dangling....
I've been writing my own novel lately, and the debate in the tread over the past few days reminds me of something Brandon Sanderson has said: One of the worst things you can do as a writer is to not payoff the promises that you set at the beginning of the story. Like, your book could be extremally well written with relatable characters, but if it starts as literary fiction and turns into dark fantasy midway through, you're going to alienate a ton of readers so much that they put down the book entirely.
Why do I bring this up? Because it seems like the few people in the thread who are annoyed at the jokey fourth-wall breaking tone in some Marvel properties see the MCU as telling one story, rather than a bunch of stories within the same universe. The big shift in tone between projects bothers them because they're treating it more like chapters in a single work rather than as almost entirely separate works.
Why do I bring this up? Because it seems like the few people in the thread who are annoyed at the jokey fourth-wall breaking tone in some Marvel properties see the MCU as telling one story, rather than a bunch of stories within the same universe. The big shift in tone between projects bothers them because they're treating it more like chapters in a single work rather than as almost entirely separate works.
Exactly. The whole point of a shared universe is that it isn't just one thing. It's a bunch of different things for different audiences, and while there may be connections between the various things, they're secondary. Nobody has to follow everything; that's an option for those who want the larger picture, but the individual series are meant to work independently, to appeal to their own distinct audiences that don't entirely overlap. Some people may be completists who want to see it all and appreciate the range of different styles and approaches, while others may prefer one style over another and only be interested in the parts that suit their tastes.
I mean, what would even be the point of making a dozen different series if they all cater to the same single audience? They're supposed to be different. That's the point. You can follow one, or two, or as many as you want, up to and including the whole lot of them. That's how it's always worked in comics -- after all, not many people would have the budget to collect every Marvel title or every DC title on a regular basis. You just read the ones you're interested in, and the diversity of storytelling styles means the publisher can attract a bigger audience overall.
But if they do deal with it in NWO and Thunderbolts, it's NOT a massive plot hole. It's just something that took time to deal with.
No one is saying they want one thing. All I'm asking for is they keep the tone relatively the same. It's a shared universe. With crossover stories. It's jarring for one piece of the story to have an extremely dark tone and the next piece to be sillier than Batman 66 type of comedy. A bit of light comedy is fine. But going to the extreme is to much ..
I remember when Indiana Jones 4 came out and the outrage outrage over "implausible" stunts. Lol. Or anger over a prequel series like Enterprise that actually went out of its way to try to line up with an established tone and continuity.
Now we have people perfectly fine with series like Star Trek Discovery and Strange New Worlds that deviate farther from established continuity than ever before.
Maybe I'm missing something.
I will say I don't mind 4th wall breaking if it's done a certain way. House of Cards comes to mind. It was done in a way as a form of narration. It did not detract from the main story or having other characters aware that Frank was talking to the audience. In She Hulk we have Daredevil dropping unexpectedly out of camera shot into frame with a look of bewilderment......
Just going too far for my tastes. I'm sure the next Deadpool will take it to even sillier depths....
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Marvel has been doing that since they started the MCU and it's both a curse and a blessing. On the one (blessing) side it lets a grander storyline gradually evolve and gives the more knowledgeable tons of easter eggs to discover and possible clues to the next development ( which turn out to be wrong sometimes because the MCU has a habit of adapting the comics and changing things quite a bit).
On the curse side it sometimes overpowers the movie - Thor: The Dark World for example ( in my opinion) and leads formulaic storytelling and forceful introduction of elements that don't feel organic to the story of the movie but that's also the MCU and part of the reason why some directors and writers walked out on a project because they didn't have the creative control they were used to.
Concerning Cap 4 returning to social issues once again just because the new Cap is a black superhero would just be retreading old ground, they covered that aspect in the show well enough. If they use Cap 4 as a diving board to lay the groundwork for Wolverine's adamantium skeleton is just something i expect the MCU to do. The details are important though - does the movie's story work on its own or is that mandated inclusion overpowering and dominating the story? Even if it may still be a good Cap story, just a different one in style to the Steve Rogers movies.
But that's not what the MCU does. It hasn't from the beginning. Each story, especially early on, had a distinct tone and style that felt different. So, I would expect the variety, and then see each of the characters interact in a different piece with a slightly different tone.
I guess these aren't the same people who are complaining that the movies are too interconnected.
Whereas in a comic book connected universe there are various styles of books, from dark urban fantasy to four colour heroes to more grounded gritty mysteries. The comedy aspect is also an essential parts of some books. Just because Jen breaks the fourth wall in her own story doesn't mean that she will do it in every story.
One of the things Infinity War did really well was incorporating the Guardians. By the time they met the main heroes, their quips and humour were toned down enough that it incorporated well with Iron Man and Spider-Man, but there wasn't the over the top humour that permeates their own films. Jen could easily join the Avengers and have the same personality sans speaking to the audience and jumping out of the Disney+ screen.
I wouldn't give up hope about Captain America just yet. Just like the series addressed the Blip, CA4 could very well do a gritty, spy thriller take on Celestial Island. That story line could very well address the same issues as Wakanda Forever, but looking at how the presence of this island has a real affect on "normal" people within the MCU. I'm hopeful.
As for Jen, I mentioned her character above--just because one thing happens in the series, doesn't mean it will happen outside of the series. Just look at the comics for examples of She-Hulk's appearance in different comics.
For me She-Hulk reminded me a lot of Boston Legal, which is still one of my favorite series. That series addressed issues in an "over the top" format in a similar way in that there were week to week real world issues usually with Denny Crane finding himself caught up in them in some silly way. She-Hulk, like BL, is a satire and uses humour to attack the issues of the day. There's a place for satire as much as there is a place for more serious drama, in fact satire has been around a lot longer.
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