Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

[Christopher]

My problem with the idea of a '60s-set Fantastic Four is that the FF is supposed to be driven by cutting-edge superscience and frequent encounters with aliens and extradimensional life, and the MCU just isn't a place where such things would've been known about as far back as the '60s. And going the "it was all kept secret" route doesn't fit the FF either, because their very public, celebrity nature is also a core element of who they are. So I don't see it working unless it's explicitly an alternate timeline.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Who says the Fantastic Four have to be kept secret? As far as MCU retcons go, a super team existing in the 60s isn't that big of a deal. Besides, if it set in the modern-day then Reed's inventions would be all slick and modern. I'd rather see the kind of huge Jack Kirby inspired gizmos that Reed would come up with back in those days.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Can they establish the 60s FF as part of some Thanos multiverse with 70s Shang Chi, Luke Cage, Dazzler, Ghost Rider and Howard the Duck?

 

[OCD Geek]

I'm copying and pasting something I just posted over in the X-Men thread.

I really hope Kevin Feige is planning to do an X-Men series for Disney+. You can still have them show up in the movies for crossovers, side stories and spin-offs and shit, but there are way too many beloved characters and storylines to do justice in even an expansive long-running film series ala Harry Potter (or Feige's similar way-more-than-just-a-trilogy plans with Spider-Man).

The template for Feige's X-Men shouldn't be Fox's X-Men or Disney's Avengers, but DisneyFox's Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel. We should have plenty of time to fully explore an ensemble cast through their romances and friendships. Quiet character-driven scenes and fun moments of the characters just goofing around and hanging out should be just as prevalent and integral as the fight scenes. The Dark Phoenix Saga should be the myth arc of the fourth season of a show that lasts seven seasons or longer.

By all means give the Deadpools, Wolverines, Kitty Prydes, Storms, New Mutants and X-Forces of the MCU their own spin-off movies, but for the love of Christ give both the core X-Men and Peter David's X-Factor Investigations their own TV series.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I've been a fan of 60's Fantastic Four film for ages now, but I don't see the point of arguing why yet again. The whole argument has been reductive at this point, with the same people making the same points for either side ad naseam.

So we're starting to hear more and more about the MCU moving forward.

-Black Widow has started filming
-Eternals is supposed to film this fall
-Shang-Chi is supposed to film this fall
(It's pretty rare that they film 2 things at the same time like this, so we'll see if it's true.)
-Dr Strange 2 is supposed to start filming early next year
-GOTG 3 is supposed to film next year, whenever Gunn is done with Suicide Squad 2
-brand new rumors that Fantastic Four might be on the schedule for 2022
-Falcon and Winter Soldier is supposed to film this fall
-I don't think we've heard dates yet for WandaVision or Loki filming (or Hawkeye)


It's obviously still up in the air, but right now a realistic possibility seems to be that the two 2020 movies will be Black Widow and Eternals, and the three 2021 movies might be Shang-Chi, Dr Strange, and GOTG 3. The 2022 slate could include the likes of FF, Black Panther, or Captain Marvel. (It wouldn't surprise me if GOTG3 and BP2 got flipped between 2021 and 2022.) 2022 could also feature the likes of Young Avengers or Dark Avengers/Thunderbolts. Though they might want to wait another year or two to build up to those. (If they even happen.)

I would be surprised if the Black Panther sequel will be more than three years after the first film. It seems like a script is already being worked on and Ryan Coogler is already committed to directing it. The demand for a sequel will be greater not just for Marvel, but for the black community, so I would be surprised if we don't get it in 2021, if not earlier.

I'm copying and pasting something I just posted over in the X-Men thread.

I really hope Kevin Feige is planning to do an X-Men series for Disney+. You can still have them show up in the movies for crossovers, side stories and spin-offs and shit, but there are way too many beloved characters and storylines to do justice in even an expansive long-running film series ala Harry Potter (or Feige's similar way-more-than-just-a-trilogy plans with Spider-Man).

The template for Feige's X-Men shouldn't be Fox's X-Men or Disney's Avengers, but DisneyFox's Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel. We should have plenty of time to fully explore an ensemble cast through their romances and friendships. Quiet character-driven scenes and fun moments of the characters just goofing around and hanging out should be just as prevalent and integral as the fight scenes. The Dark Phoenix Saga should be the myth arc of the fourth season of a show that lasts seven seasons or longer.

By all means give the Deadpools, Wolverines, Kitty Prydes, Storms, New Mutants and X-Forces of the MCU their own spin-off movies, but for the love of Christ give both the core X-Men and Peter David's X-Factor Investigations their own TV series.

I like that idea a lot. It would certainly help create a fresh take on the X-Men characters and stories for Marvel instead of feeling like retread of Fox's two takes.

 

[Christopher]

Who says the Fantastic Four have to be kept secret?

Where do you get "have to"? I'm following a hypothetical to its logical conclusion. In the MCU, clearly, the general public was not familiar with the existence of alien life at the time of Captain Marvel or with other dimensions at the time of Thor. Therefore, in the hypothetical scenario where the FF movie is set in the '60s, then any interaction they have with alien life or other dimensions could not be publicly reported. So either they have such adventures which are kept secret, or they don't have such adventures at all. Neither of which seems like a scenario that would make the best use of the FF's potential.

Besides, if it set in the modern-day then Reed's inventions would be all slick and modern. I'd rather see the kind of huge Jack Kirby inspired gizmos that Reed would come up with back in those days.

The FF is still being published today. Their tech has been slick and modern for a long time. I don't see a problem with that. The FF and Iron Man both date from the '60s originally, and they've both updated their tech over time.

Besides, the FF are a more interesting team in their later years, after they've become this long-established first family of superhero-adventurers, than they were in the early days when they were just starting out. I don't want a nostalgic take, because they're a team that got better with time.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I've been a fan of 60's Fantastic Four film for ages now, but I see the point of arguing why yet again. The whole argument has been reductive at this point, with the same people making the same points for either side ad naseam.


I would be surprised if the Black Panther sequel will be more than three years after the first film. It seems like a script is already being worked on and Ryan Coogler is already committed to directing it. The demand for a sequel will be greater not just for Marvel, but for the black community, so I would be surprised if we don't get it in 2021, if not earlier.


I like that idea a lot. It would certainly help create a fresh take on the X-Men characters and stories for Marvel instead of feeling like retread of Fox's two takes.

They could be switching to 4 movies a year in 2021, in which case Black Panther is a shoe-in. But if they aren't, then based on what we already know the 3 2021 films pretty much have to be Shang-chi, Dr. Strange and Guardians. They're all already locked and loaded. And GotG will have already waited 4 years by that point and Strange 5 (!).

 

[Gavin70]

brand new rumors that Fantastic Four might be on the schedule for 2022

I live in eternal hope

Why are some people obsessed with putting the FF in the 60s?

Yeah I don't understand this either. And if they're trying to fold the FF into the MCU, then setting it in the 60's means they've got to provide an explanation for their absence from the MCU to date. Although I suppose you could do a period piece with their origin based on the race to get into space (as in the comics) and have it finish with Reed Richards opening a gateway to the Negative Zone, which brings them out into the modern world rather than back to their own time. But it seems fairly unnecessary to me.

 

[theenglish]

We're not seeing Batman or Superman movies set in the late 30s, Iron man in the movies wasn't injured in Vietnam, Deadpool wasn't set in the 90s, etc., so why would the FF be in the 60s? Do people really just want to make Reed Richards into a character from Madmen or something, just so they can reference how sexist the Stan Lee run of FF was?

A lot of these ideas sound really intriguing. A Superman movie or Batman set in the thirties could really be awesome! Bring on Earth 2!

As for the FF, I think that the contemporary universe is in the perfect place to introduce them. Their origin story could have been in the five year gap, and now they are ready to emerge on the scene. Reed would be a great successor to Tony in terms of being the scientific genius of the MCU, and seeing them interact with Bruce Banner/Hulk would be classic.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Of course, whether it's in contemporary times or a period piece, I trust Kevin Feige to get it right. I'm not going to pitch a fit just because my personal preferences aren't met. I'm just an advocate for these movies being visually distinctive from each other. And I've always enjoyed the idea of exploring other time periods.

 

[Relayer1]

Yeah I don't understand this either. And if they're trying to fold the FF into the MCU, then setting it in the 60's means they've got to provide an explanation for their absence from the MCU to date. Although I suppose you could do a period piece with their origin based on the race to get into space (as in the comics) and have it finish with Reed Richards opening a gateway to the Negative Zone, which brings them out into the modern world rather than back to their own time. But it seems fairly unnecessary to me.

I really like that approach, and it does open up opportunities for guest spots for the original Ant Man, Wasp, Peggy (and Steve ?), setting some historical groundwork for mutants and all sorts of other fun stuff.

 

[Gavin70]

I really like that approach, and it does open up opportunities for guest spots for the original Ant Man, Wasp, Peggy (and Steve ?), setting some historical groundwork for mutants and all sorts of other fun stuff.

Maybe I should get in now and claim a story credit

 

[Relayer1]

Maybe I should get in now and claim a story credit

Sadly, it's been discussed elsewhere for a while now...good luck with that !

 

[Christopher]

As for the FF, I think that the contemporary universe is in the perfect place to introduce them. Their origin story could have been in the five year gap, and now they are ready to emerge on the scene.

Oh, that's perfect. I've been saying all along that the FF are more interesting when they're a well-established, respected group (which is why all their origin-story movies have been weak and Rise of the Silver Surfer was the least disappointing of the lot), but I couldn't see how to reconcile that with MCU continuity. The 5-year gap is a great way to resolve that.

 

[suarezguy]

Can Iron Man 2 and 3 or The Avengers or Ant-Man be considered toy commercials in the sense that Batman & Robin often is?

 

[kirk55555]

Of course, whether it's in contemporary times or a period piece, I trust Kevin Feige to get it right. I'm not going to pitch a fit just because my personal preferences aren't met. I'm just an advocate for these movies being visually distinctive from each other. And I've always enjoyed the idea of exploring other time periods.

I might have agreed, but for two things:

1. We're in a post Ant-Man & The Wasp world. The MCU has released a movie I hate more then Batman v Superman once now, so anything is possible. I still default to being excited for MCU films, but my excitement is tempered by the fact that they have the potential to completely fail.

2. I HATE 60s shit, especially stories focused on characters being shitty in the way 60s people were. Even Doctor Who got weird and did this shit fairly recently, in a roundabout way (the 1st Doctor became much, much more sexiest then he actually ever was when a recast first Doctor teamed up with the last Doctor, but because the show started in the 60s that meant that the ancient alien from a world that obviously had gender equality millions of years before he was born had to act like a shitty old man from 1963, even though he rarely if ever acted like that in the actual 60s). If Reed richards acts like that, then the entire FF franchise is fucking done. You think Fant4stic killed the franchise? Try seeing what happens to people's interest if 3 of the four characters in the FF are shitty to women "because 60s". Its a great way to make people absolutely loathe your "heroes". We don't need to see Reed Richards (or Ben/Johnny) by way of Madmen. We don't need to see the 60s attitude toward women in a superhero movie made in 2019.

If they could guarenteed that none of the social shit of the 60s would come into play, I might grudgingly accept a sixties setting, especially if we got some cameos by characters who were around at the time. But, it would most likely be like the Agent Carter tv show (I dropped that crap show because it was basically nothing but "Look how shitty people are to women in the 50s", and had little to no plot besides that), but worse because it would take down a well known Marvel property with it.

There are many places where exploring the shitty parts of our history makes sense, and its probably important to do that. The MCU is not that setting.

 

[Set Harth]

the 1st Doctor became much, much more sexiest then he actually ever was

Hey, whatever floats your boat!

 

[Turtletrekker]

I might have agreed, but for two things:

1. We're in a post Ant-Man & The Wasp world. The MCU has released a movie I hate more then Batman v Superman once now, so anything is possible. I still default to being excited for MCU films, but my excitement is tempered by the fact that they have the potential to completely fail.

2. I HATE 60s shit, especially stories focused on characters being shitty in the way 60s people were. Even Doctor Who got weird and did this shit fairly recently, in a roundabout way (the 1st Doctor became much, much more sexiest then he actually ever was when a recast first Doctor teamed up with the last Doctor, but because the show started in the 60s that meant that the ancient alien from a world that obviously had gender equality millions of years before he was born had to act like a shitty old man from 1963, even though he rarely if ever acted like that in the actual 60s). If Reed richards acts like that, then the entire FF franchise is fucking done. You think Fant4stic killed the franchise? Try seeing what happens to people's interest if 3 of the four characters in the FF are shitty to women "because 60s". Its a great way to make people absolutely loathe your "heroes". We don't need to see Reed Richards (or Ben/Johnny) by way of Madmen. We don't need to see the 60s attitude toward women in a superhero movie made in 2019.

If they could guarenteed that none of the social shit of the 60s would come into play, I might grudgingly accept a sixties setting, especially if we got some cameos by characters who were around at the time. But, it would most likely be like the Agent Carter tv show (I dropped that crap show because it was basically nothing but "Look how shitty people are to women in the 50s", and had little to no plot besides that), but worse because it would take down a well known Marvel property with it.

There are many places where exploring the shitty parts of our history makes sense, and its probably important to do that. The MCU is not that setting.

Sure. That's certainly an opinion.

I could make a point about the dangers of pretending certain points in history didn't happen because it makes people uncomfortable, but it would probably fall on deaf ears anyway.

 

[flandry84]

Dunno about making the FF as a period piece.It would be akin to a Colombo reboot being done in the style of the 70’s,what once was cutting edge tech would baffle modern audiences but for the wrong reasons.

 

[kirk55555]

Sure. That's certainly an opinion.

I could make a point about the dangers of pretending certain points in history didn't happen because it makes people uncomfortable, but it would probably fall on deaf ears anyway.

For fucks sake, I said there is a place for stories like that, but why the fuck would they ruin the Fantastic Four with that? That would be a real DCEU move, going stupidly realistic with a comic book hero. There is a difference between ignoring bad parts of history and not shoving those elements into situations that don't warrant them, and would actively hurt the story/character.

But, I suppose that distinction falls on deaf ears.