Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread
- Thread starter bbjeg
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Don't you think that hinders Marvel? The conclusion of Civil War in the comics was this
We know Crossbones has been confirmed to return for the Civil War film but his role (and Sharon Carter's role) as Steve's assassin is pretty much off the table.
You can predict that Tony and Steve will fight and the film will end with them being friends. Why even do Civil War if they're going to sidestep the consequences of such an event?
Also what is going to act as the spark that lights the division between Steve and Tony? In the comics it was a civilian area being blown up and 60 children dying. If "dark" is off the table at Marvel, then what could cause Steve and Tony to form their own Avengers' Teams to fight eachother?
So no Emo Symbiont Spidey?!?
Like with Age of Ultron, I think Marvel could use more pathos and tension in them.
Don't you think that hinders Marvel? The conclusion of Civil War in the comics was this
We know Crossbones has been confirmed to return for the Civil War film but his role (and Sharon Carter's role) as Steve's assassin is pretty much off the table.
You can predict that Tony and Steve will fight and the film will end with them being friends. Why even do Civil War if they're going to sidestep the consequences of such an event?
Also what is going to act as the spark that lights the division between Steve and Tony? In the comics it was a civilian area being blown up and 60 children dying. If "dark" is off the table at Marvel, then what could cause Steve and Tony to form their own Avengers' Teams to fight eachother?
There's a difference between "dark" and "dramatic"; it's all about the execution. As we've seen in AoU they can kill off main characters and make you think they're going to kill off main characters without compromising the fun or the drama. Hell, right before we were all sure Hawkeye was going to bite it, he was making jokes and being as entertaining to watch as he'd ever been and it STILL would have been an effective and dramatic death scene.
As for Cap, I can see them doing going that way. It's not like his last two movies didn't end on somewhat hollow victories.
There's a difference between "dark" and "dramatic"; it's all about the execution. As we've seen in AoU they can kill off main characters and make you think they're going to kill off main characters without compromising the fun or the drama. Hell, right before we were all sure Hawkeye was going to bite it, he was making jokes and being as entertaining to watch as he'd ever been and it STILL would have been an effective and dramatic death scene.
As for Cap, I can see them doing going that way. It's not like his last two movies didn't end on somewhat hollow victories.
How many "deaths" and "returns" has Marvel done though?
Coulson died and is back.
Loki "died" twice and came back twice.
Pepper "died" but it was a fake out.
Fury "died" and came back.
Peter Quill, Steve Rogers, and Tony Stark have all had near death experiences and all made it ok in the end.
HISHE brought this up last year. @1:55
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhbWIFDqQfk[/yt]
The one death that sticks is Quicksilver's. A speedester who got killed by bullets. What's next, Namor dying by drowning? I expect Marvel will keep QS dead but at the same time I didn't feel anything when QS died. It was silly and the whole moment felt hollow.
When the mutants were dying in DOFP, I empathized. When Gwen Stacey died in TASM 2, I was genuinely sad. Hell, I felt bad when Rachel and Harvey met their tragic ends in TDK. Marvel has framed their universe so that things like death and tragedy don't matter. Which is fine, but it cuts them off from having their characters experience pathos.
^If you were paying attention, they'd already telegraphed that Quicksilver couldn't outrun a bullet TWICE in the movie. Once when Hawkeye shot the glass out beneath his feet and again when the cop accidentally shot him in the arm. Plus, in that scene he intentionally put himself in the path of what was probably high velocity anti-armor rounds from a cyclic rate cannon, probably knowing he'd get hit.
I said it was silly because QS pushes a car in front of Hawkeye and the child. Instead of picking them up and moving them out of harms way. Moving a car (when you don't have super strength) in front of the people you're trying to save is more physically demanding then the aforementioned alternative I gave.
Now I know Whedon wanted/had to kill someone off. But come on Joss! You can do better than that. Why not have him fight Ultron alone, like Capt and Thor did but have Pietro fail to outrun Ultron's grasp and is killed that way? Too dark that's why! Better for Ultron to be in a jet, squeezing a trigger and killing QS.
*Sigh*
I have to wonder, how collared was Whedon on this film?
Now I know Whedon wanted/had to kill someone off. But come on Joss! You can do better than that. Why not have him fight Ultron alone, like Capt and Thor did but have Pietro fail to outrun Ultron's grasp and is killed that way? Too dark that's why! Better for Ultron to be in a jet, squeezing a trigger and killing QS.
*Sigh*
I have to wonder, how collared was Whedon on this film?
Don't you think that hinders Marvel? The conclusion of Civil War in the comics was this
And its irrelevant if they choose to end it a different way in the movie much like how the Marvel Alliance 2 version of Civil War ends with Cap still alive.
Also considering another Captain America film would be the place to deal with the aftermath of that (unless they want to bog down Infinity War with it which is already sounds like its going to have loads and loads of characters as is), and Marvel won't have room for another one until at least 2019 it seems kind of problematic to do.
As I said, they already established he can't outrun bullets. He had enough time to get there, but not enough to get away again without them all being turned into Swiss cheese. So he did the only thing he could to protect them.
It's really not as complicated as you're making it out to be.
Honestly, at this point anyone who cares enough to want to read the comic probably already knows that Cap dies. I haven't read it yet, but I plan to and I've been aware of Cap's death pretty much since it happened.
He isn't actually killed in Civil War proper, but in Captain America 25, which is set immediately after CW.
The MCU versions of TWS and AOU are not the exact same as the stories in the comics, so who knows how CW will end in the MCU?!?
I guess I'm somewhat praising it, it was when comics were on the rise for me. The cross comic story arch was and still is a good read.
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I think the movies were already leading up to this.
In Avengers Cap is distrustful of Tony and they clash resulting in the infamous "Playboy, philantropist billionaire" quip (before they learned to respect each other).
However their characters are still diametrically opposed.. Cap is a stickler for rules, the truth, freedom and doing the good thing while Tony is the one who always looks for a shortcut, is ok with doing things in secret and will bend or break every rule if it stands in his way. Tony is also a control freak and everything must happen according to his design and plan.
The last drop might not be a superpower battle gone wrong in the vicinity of a kindergarden (the MCU has not established many B or C level superheroes and villains to copy the exact events from the comics) but something similar might happen which prompts Stark to join with the government against Cap and voila.. Civil War.
If the Hydra reveal didn't happen in Cap 2 that storyline could have even started way sooner because Cap was against the Insight project the second he learned about it and i seriously doubt Fury, even though he liked Rogers very much, would let a single man tamper with his plans for world security.
As to the MCU getting dark, well... they are still basic feel good stories where the heroes win at the end in a spectacular battle but i get the feeling they won't shy away from either retiring Rogers or really killing him (Cap movies feel like they are advancing the metaplot of the MCU the most besides Avengers).
Remember the one shot in Cap 2 where Bucky/Winter Soldiers wrestles away the shield for a moment and standing there in the typical Captain America hero pose? I doubt that was done just because of the cool effect..