Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

[N-121973]

Can I ask, what is with all the love for Miles Morales? To my mind, and I would argue the majority of the audience out there, Peter Parker IS Spider-Man. Anything else - at least to me - is a substitute. I might add that I bailed on the ultimate line not long after they introduced Miles, it wasn't Spider-Man to me. Let's face it there's only one Superman (Clark Kent) or Batman (Bruce Wayne), even if there have been pretenders who've taken their place on occasion. At the end of the day if the Miles Morales Spidey appears then I'm going to feel short-changed and given Sony's attitude to the Miles Morales character I really don't know why Marvel had to jump through so many hoops to get the rights to use him and if Marvel use Morales in the MCU we have to forego a third Andrew Garfield ASM film made by Sony. As for Peter Parker's ethnicity why can't he be African-American or Asian-American, just because their are a lot of other ethnic minority characters running around the MCU, what's another one?

Miles is just different. Think about it. Tobey Macguire last Spider-Man movie was in 2007. Andrew Garfield's last was 2014 and now we are getting a new Spider-Man for the films in 2017. People want a change and Marvel's turned everything they touch to gold so why not? Personally I'd like to see Ben Reily/Scarlet Spider on screen but that's not happening. Miles has a fanbase and he could use the boost to his profile. Before Superior Spider-Man replaced the Amazing Spider-Man line back in 2013. Miles on Ultimate Spidey was outselling Amazing with Peter.

I don't know, outside of the comics community I'm just not seeing much of a fan base for him. I certainly doubt Marvel would have found it as difficult to secure the rights if they planned on using Miles Morales. If you look at live action comics adaptions be they TV or films the powers that be tend to go with the established popular version of a character. For instance, flashbacks and alternate reality or what-if stories aside, there hasn't been a comic featuring Dick Grayson as Robin in over thirty years, not in the main stream continuity. There have been two versions of Jason Todd (pre and post crisis), Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown and now Damian Wayne. There was also the female Robin from Frank Miller's Dark Knight graphic novels and I dare say someone will chime in with someone else who I've left out. But when it came time to insert Robin into the films, instead of going with the then current side-kick Tim Drake, they went with Dick Grayson , albeit one who allegedly contained elements of the others.

As for Miles Morales comics out performing Peter Parker ones, I'm just guessing here, but it could all be relative, i.e. the Peter Parker ones were going through a bad patch and simply performing even more badly than the Miles Morales ones?

 

[M.A.C.O.]

As for Miles Morales comics out performing Peter Parker ones, I'm just guessing here, but it could all be relative, i.e. the Peter Parker ones were going through a bad patch and simply performing even more badly than the Miles Morales ones?

No, the Miles Morales (Ultimate Spider-Man) was legit outselling Amazing Spider-Man (Peter) back in 2012. Granted Amazing Spider-Man wasn't doing too hot at the time but Ultimate was hitting it hard. They killed Peter off and replaced him with Doc Ock as the Superior Spider-Man in 2013. Superior's sales overtook the Ultimate line. Peter was brought back in 2014 in April right before TASM2 came out and has maintained a lead of Miles since then.

 

[Relayer1]

Miles Morales is not going to be showing up in the movies any time soon. He's popular among comic book fans, but I'm willing to bet that's as far as awareness of the character goes. The vast majority of people out there only know Peter Parker as Spider-Man. That's who they'll be expecting, and that's who they'll be getting.

True.

Comic book fans make up a tiny tiny fraction of the audience for a movielike this. No one outside that clique has ever heard of Miles. Admittedly, the Guardians were just as unknown, but no-one was expecting anyone else to be the Guardians.

Everyone will be expecting Peter Parker to be Spider Man...

 

[TheSeeker]

I actually only started reading Spider-Man again when Doc Ock took over. I like Dan Slott's writing.

 

[sonak]

If they're going a "light reboot" / "implied continuity" direction, I think they'd be more likely to indirectly reference elements from the Raimi films, which more people saw and liked.

Except going with the Raimi films means having a film series where Green Goblin is dead, Doc Ock is dead, and Venom and the symbiote are dead.

Would Marvel really want a universe where three major villains are unusable due to them being dead?

You don't seem to understand what I meant by "light reboot", "implied continuity", or "indirectly reference". I never for a moment said or meant to imply that the new Spidey would have the same continuity, lock, stock, and barrel. But if this is going to be a new version of Spider-Man who already has some implied history behind him, they're more likely to make that implied history resemble some details of the Raimi films, which the general audience is more likely to recognize.

I disagree, I prefer a slightly older Peter Parker, because part of what makes the character interesting is things like struggling to find or keep a job and paying the rent while being a superhero. High school or college Parker only has to balance a relationship against his other life, he doesn't have more adult concerns.

I take it you haven't read much 60s or 70s Spider-Man, have you? Elements such as "struggling to find or keep a job and paying the rent while being a superhero" defined the character from Day 1.

... which is a far more realistic struggle for a mid twenty-something than a teenager or college student, which was my whole point. Why would a teenager or college student be struggling to pay rent?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

War Machine

Iron Patriot.

IRON SPIDER

Now that Spidey is in the MCU, this can happen!

I hope not. Iron Spider only works with years of Spider-Man interacting with the Marvel universe. The costume is something that represents Spider-Man selling out. It shouldn't be the very first costume.

^ Except Samuel L Jackson is portraying Ultimate Nick Fury...

I know, but Ultimate NF still falls under a character they turned black (even though they retconned later that the original NF was Ultimate's father).

I could be wrong, but my understanding is Ultimate Nick Fury is just Ultimate Nick Fury (and looks like Samuel L. Jackson). In the regular universe, Nick Fury Jr. is the character they made the original Nick Fury's son. That was done to give the 616 comics consistency with the movies.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

... which is a far more realistic struggle for a mid twenty-something than a teenager or college student, which was my whole point. Why would a teenager or college student be struggling to pay rent?

If I had only known that it sure would've made college a lot easier.

 

[Venardhi]

I'm baffled why anyone would want to change anything? I mean actively change it just to change it. And why black? If there's any other race that would make sense for Peter Parker, he'd be Asian or half Asian, possible half Asian and half Black. People of that ancestry are discriminated by almost everyone that does that kind of thing. Not everyone discriminates. But then it needs to be not a "thing" constantly mentioned. So if there is an actor that is great in the part, and they are not a certain race, fine they were best for the part. But just limiting it to only one kind of actors because of race seems very bad to me.

There is a difference from actively wanting to change and being open to some changes that make no actual difference to the character. I think most people fall into the latter category.

Heimdall isn't the Human characters' introduction to Asgardians. If Thor came down in a bolt of lightning and stood there played by Idris Elba, the characters would almost certainly wonder why the hell a Nordic god is Black and it would be strange if they didn't. Peter Parker has no such in-universe baggage.

 

[theenglish]

One thing to consider is that would making Spider-Man black "cheapen" Black Panther who will get his deput in the same film?

If you make Spider-Man black then that will be the main "race" related story told about the film, when it should be about the first mainstream black comic book character finally showing up in a live action film.

So why make such an arbitrary change in a film that probably already has so much happening.

I'm already afraid that having Spider-Man will overshadow everything else. Making him black would be the final nail.

So lets get the "classic" Spider-Man in this. Preferably without any backstory. Everyone in the audience knows who he is.

Lets not forget that it still is a Captain America film.

@Bold
Naw this is totally Iron Man 4. RDJ said on The View a 4th Iron Man was in development but later that week Marvel announced it was going to be a Capt v Iron movie. Using Civil War story to fit them both in the movie.

There is still plenty of time to change that. Marvel's Civil War would be a perfectly acceptable title.

 

[bbjeg]

...

^ Except Samuel L Jackson is portraying Ultimate Nick Fury...

I know, but Ultimate NF still falls under a character they turned black (even though they retconned later that the original NF was Ultimate's father).

I could be wrong, but my understanding is Ultimate Nick Fury is just Ultimate Nick Fury (and looks like Samuel L. Jackson). In the regular universe, Nick Fury Jr. is the character they made the original Nick Fury's son. That was done to give the 616 comics consistency with the movies.

My bad, mixed universes, by the rest of the statement still stands.

 

[Relayer1]

Hugh Jackman said this week, he's be very interested in seeing the X Men and Avengers together !

I realise his 'wants' probably don't have much more chance of making that happen than mine do, but...

 

[Set Harth]

He's been saying that for years.

 

[Samurai8472]

What Infinity War I and II needs is a Thano's copter

 

[Doctorwhovian]

In recent years, Wolverine was an Avenger and an X-man.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

What Infinity War I and II needs is a Thano's copter

Dammit, googling this led me to a Brian Cronin article on same and now I've wasted a bunch of time. It's like TVTropes, once you accidentally wander in you don't emerge for hours...

 

[Set Harth]

What Infinity War I and II needs is a Thano's copter

Thanos says "Drat" in that comic.

Saying "Drat" just ain't cool anymore or else we might see him say it in IW.

The whole thing with putting his name on the copter, that's so the valet can tell it apart from all the others.

 

[sonak]

... which is a far more realistic struggle for a mid twenty-something than a teenager or college student, which was my whole point. Why would a teenager or college student be struggling to pay rent?

If I had only known that it sure would've made college a lot easier.

Obviously there are exceptions, but for the most part these days college students are either living in a dorm paid for by parents or through scholarship, or are attending college close to home, living with parents or other family. As college tuition has skyrocketed, the paradigm of paying one's way through college while working is not very common these days. If you did a survey of 18-22 year-olds attending college, I doubt you'd find too many who are dealing with the issue of working full-time to pay rent.

Since part of the appeal of the Peter Parker character is as a common guy struggling with day to day concerns, I think that "twenty-something struggling with rent" is better than "high school or college science whiz."

 

[Mr. Adventure]

... which is a far more realistic struggle for a mid twenty-something than a teenager or college student, which was my whole point. Why would a teenager or college student be struggling to pay rent?

If I had only known that it sure would've made college a lot easier.

Obviously there are exceptions, but for the most part these days college students are either living in a dorm paid for by parents or through scholarship, or are attending college close to home, living with parents or other family. As college tuition has skyrocketed, the paradigm of paying one's way through college while working is not very common these days. If you did a survey of 18-22 year-olds attending college, I doubt you'd find too many who are dealing with the issue of working full-time to pay rent.

Since part of the appeal of the Peter Parker character is as a common guy struggling with day to day concerns, I think that "twenty-something struggling with rent" is better than "high school or college science whiz."

Yeah, I guess I don't know the modern situation. I went to college over 20 years ago and my family didn't have much money. Then again, I don't know how much of Peter Parker's problems spoke to the average college student of his day.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

If we don't see the Thanos Copter, complete with labeling, I'm going to feel robbed, robbed I say!

 

[Venardhi]

If I had only known that it sure would've made college a lot easier.

Obviously there are exceptions, but for the most part these days college students are either living in a dorm paid for by parents or through scholarship, or are attending college close to home, living with parents or other family. As college tuition has skyrocketed, the paradigm of paying one's way through college while working is not very common these days. If you did a survey of 18-22 year-olds attending college, I doubt you'd find too many who are dealing with the issue of working full-time to pay rent.

Since part of the appeal of the Peter Parker character is as a common guy struggling with day to day concerns, I think that "twenty-something struggling with rent" is better than "high school or college science whiz."

Yeah, I guess I don't know the modern situation. I went to college over 20 years ago and my family didn't have much money. Then again, I don't know how much of Peter Parker's problems spoke to the average college student of his day.

There are still kids working their way through college, just as there were 20 years ago and 40 years ago. My mom did it in the 80s, most of my friends and I did it 10 years ago and I'm doing it again today. Scholarships and grants and government programs at state-run schools make it more than viable for anyone willing to put in the work and keep a job at the same time.