Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

[.:: TSN ::.]

One thing to consider is that would making Spider-Man black "cheapen" Black Panther who will get his deput in the same film?

If you make Spider-Man black then that will be the main "race" related story told about the film, when it should be about the first mainstream black comic book character finally showing up in a live action film.

So why make such an arbitrary change in a film that probably already has so much happening.

I'm already afraid that having Spider-Man will overshadow everything else. Making him black would be the final nail.

So lets get the "classic" Spider-Man in this. Preferably without any backstory. Everyone in the audience knows who he is.

Lets not forget that it still is a Captain America film.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

One thing to consider is that would making Spider-Man black "cheapen" Black Panther who will get his deput in the same film?

If you make Spider-Man black then that will be the main "race" related story told about the film, when it should be about the first mainstream black comic book character finally showing up in a live action film.

So why make such an arbitrary change in a film that probably already has so much happening.

I'm already afraid that having Spider-Man will overshadow everything else. Making him black would be the final nail.

So lets get the "classic" Spider-Man in this. Preferably without any backstory. Everyone in the audience knows who he is.

Lets not forget that it still is a Captain America film.

@Bold
Naw this is totally Iron Man 4. RDJ said on The View a 4th Iron Man was in development but later that week Marvel announced it was going to be a Capt v Iron movie. Using Civil War story to fit them both in the movie.

 

[Skywalker]

Yeah, it's totally Iron Man 4. That's why it has "Captain America" in the title.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Capt needs a third movie and they want to milk another $1 billion gross out of RDJ by putting him in the movie. Everybody is happy. Everybody except those who hate the Civil War story.

 

[Skywalker]

I wouldn't worry too much if you hated the Civil War story. From what I've been reading it's not going to be quite like how it was in the comics. Plus Mark Millar isn't involved at all, so that's already a huge point in the movie's favor.

 

[N-121973]

Can I ask, what is with all the love for Miles Morales? To my mind, and I would argue the majority of the audience out there, Peter Parker IS Spider-Man. Anything else - at least to me - is a substitute. I might add that I bailed on the ultimate line not long after they introduced Miles, it wasn't Spider-Man to me. Let's face it there's only one Superman (Clark Kent) or Batman (Bruce Wayne), even if there have been pretenders who've taken their place on occasion. At the end of the day if the Miles Morales Spidey appears then I'm going to feel short-changed and given Sony's attitude to the Miles Morales character I really don't know why Marvel had to jump through so many hoops to get the rights to use him and if Marvel use Morales in the MCU we have to forego a third Andrew Garfield ASM film made by Sony. As for Peter Parker's ethnicity why can't he be African-American or Asian-American, just because their are a lot of other ethnic minority characters running around the MCU, what's another one?

 

[Relayer1]

Can I ask, what is with all the love for Miles Morales? To my mind, and I would argue the majority of the audience out there, Peter Parker IS Spider-Man...........if the Miles Morales Spidey appears then I'm going to feel short-changed and given Sony's attitude to the Miles Morales character I really don't know why Marvel had to jump through so many hoops to get the rights to use him

This.

I'm a lapsed comics fan, but used to actually work in a comic shop, so I'm probably not quite an average punter, and even to me, Morales has almost zero recognition. Peter Parker IS Spidey to the general public.

For the casual movie goer a different character, or even a different Peter would be a huge WTF ? Why would Marvel go to that much trouble to disspoint ? Plus there's the very real chance of it overpowering the whole Civil War movie.

There's a time for a different Spidey a few movies down the line, but really, not now...

 

[Venardhi]

One thing to consider is that would making Spider-Man black "cheapen" Black Panther who will get his deput in the same film?

If you make Spider-Man black then that will be the main "race" related story told about the film, when it should be about the first mainstream black comic book character finally showing up in a live action film.

So why make such an arbitrary change in a film that probably already has so much happening.

I'm already afraid that having Spider-Man will overshadow everything else. Making him black would be the final nail.

I'm not saying they should make him black. I'm saying cast the person who is best able to embody the character of Peter Parker. Gangly is a plus, thin is almost a must, but as long as he is a brilliant, wise-cracking, lower-class kid from New York, I don't care what color he is. Peter Parker isn't defined by his whiteness and it shouldn't be a significant factor in casting an actor to play him.

Steve Rogers has to be white due to his WW2 history. Thor too, to properly look the part of a Nordic God. Danny Rand should be basically anything but Asian, but I could hear a good argument for him being white to augment the colonial undertones of the character. Luke Cage needs to be black. T'Challa needs to be black (and more specifically, African). I can go on. Peter Parker has no such reasoning behind his whiteness, he just was by default and it would be just as "arbitrary" to say the character has to be white in this incarnation as to 'change' his color to suit the best actor that happens into an audition. .

 

[M.A.C.O.]

Can I ask, what is with all the love for Miles Morales? To my mind, and I would argue the majority of the audience out there, Peter Parker IS Spider-Man. Anything else - at least to me - is a substitute. I might add that I bailed on the ultimate line not long after they introduced Miles, it wasn't Spider-Man to me. Let's face it there's only one Superman (Clark Kent) or Batman (Bruce Wayne), even if there have been pretenders who've taken their place on occasion. At the end of the day if the Miles Morales Spidey appears then I'm going to feel short-changed and given Sony's attitude to the Miles Morales character I really don't know why Marvel had to jump through so many hoops to get the rights to use him and if Marvel use Morales in the MCU we have to forego a third Andrew Garfield ASM film made by Sony. As for Peter Parker's ethnicity why can't he be African-American or Asian-American, just because their are a lot of other ethnic minority characters running around the MCU, what's another one?

Miles is just different. Think about it. Tobey Macguire last Spider-Man movie was in 2007. Andrew Garfield's last was 2014 and now we are getting a new Spider-Man for the films in 2017. People want a change and Marvel's turned everything they touch to gold so why not? Personally I'd like to see Ben Reily/Scarlet Spider on screen but that's not happening. Miles has a fanbase and he could use the boost to his profile. Before Superior Spider-Man replaced the Amazing Spider-Man line back in 2013. Miles on Ultimate Spidey was outselling Amazing with Peter.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZz_r9_ZBAI[/yt]


As far as racebending a character, it depends on the situation. Why racebend Peter Parker to be black if their is already a character who exists who fits the roll? Look at GL for example. There are 7 main GL's at DC. 4 are white (Hal, Guy, Kyle, Alan), 1 is black (John Stewart, 1 is Arab (Simon Baz) and one is green (Jade who is the daughter of Alan). It wouldn't make any sense for DC to cast a black actor as Hal Jordan when they could just cast him as John Stewart.


If they have a vision for the respective character, I see no problem with them casting an actor of a different race for the character. E.g. Fox's Johnny Storm by Michael B. Jordan and WB's Aquaman with Jason Mamoa. Nick Fury has been black in the comics since 2000 in the Ultimate line, so Samuel L. Jackson's casting doesn't shake up the status quo. Idris Elba has such a small part as Heimdall in the Thor film's that I can't ever believe people complained about it.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

ETA: Sorry about the doublepost. Didn't realize I was still in the same thread.

I have mixed feelings on how to use Spidey.

1) They've had two origin Spiderman movies in a decade, which is too much, and doing it again is akin to all the Superman reboots. Now I don't know about you guys, but even as a major Superman fan, I'm *tired* of all the Krypton and Smallville origin stories. How many different ways are we going to see baby Superman escape? How many times do we have to see Jor El launch the ship? How many times do we have to see him and Lara blow up? And how many times do we have to see the Kents find him and see him discover his powers?

2) I don't know ANYTHING about Miles Morales, but I feel like starting with him, could revitalize the character. We've already had 5 movies with Peter Parker, but another reboot is flirting with tiring the character out.

3) But the problem I have with Miles Morales is that I feel like an Avengers reunion SHOULD be with Peter Parker, the original Spidey.

4) But then starting with Miles, could create a build up for the return of Peter Parker...

Frankly, I didn't want Man of Steel to have an origin story and I don't want this to have an origin story. Thankfully, there's no indication they'll retell the origin.

I don't think it'll be Miles Morales. I hope he comes into the picture at some point, but I suspect Marvel wants to start with Peter Parker and I know Sony (who still has final Spider-Man say) has no interest in Morales.

How is Morales doing in the comics? Are his stories any good? Got a TPB you recommend?

I haven't read them, but it's Brian Michael Bendis, so I'm sure it'll be tediously slow leading up to a very good payoff. He's the kind of writer who tells in six issues what someone else could tell in one. But his Daredevil work is widely considered second to only Frank Miller. It also means it's better in Trade Paperback form, which I suspect there is something. Keep in mind it's the Ultimate line of comics, so it's set in an alternative universe (for the time being).

From what I understand, the character is the best thing from that universe, but one thing that makes him work so well is he's living in the shadow of Peter Parker. Not only does he have his own cast of characters, but he has people like Mary Jane who knew Peter and his identity. The death of Peter Parker was a big event over there and seems analogous to the death of Gwen Stacey and Norman Osbourne in the mainstream universe.

ETA: As for casting a person of color as Peter Parker, I think Miles should eventually be introduced and it might lessen his impact if he's the same race as the previous Spider-Man. I dunno.

 

[The Old Mixer]

War Machine

Iron Patriot.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

War Machine

Iron Patriot.

IRON SPIDER

Now that Spidey is in the MCU, this can happen!

 

[Doctorwhovian]

They've tried to replace Peter twice in the regular books-but in each case, he was still physically Peter Parker (kind of). The first was with Ben Reilly, his clone, who took up the mantle after Peter retired (previously he was the original Scarlet Spider). For a time, it was believed that the Peter who had been Spider-Man since the original clone saga in the 70s and the one who, among other things, married Mary Jane (Well before that too was retconned), was actually the clone, while "Ben" was the "real" spider-man (This was eventually reversed and Ben turned out to be the clone). Physically Ben was similar to Peter of course but had his hair dyed blonde.

There's still one other clone of Peter called Kaine out there who is the current Scarlet Spider but he's never really been Spider-man.

And more recently, there was the Superior Spider-Man, who was simply Doctor Octopus in Peter's body.


One thing I did like about the "Amazing" series is that they pretty much kept the villains alive, whereas with the exception of Sandman, the other villains died (Although Norman reappeared as a hallucination of Harry's) in the Raimi films. I wonder if the new films will keep this.

 

[bbjeg]

..
Steve Rogers has to be white due to his WW2 history. Thor too, to properly look the part of a Nordic God. Danny Rand should be basically anything but Asian, but I could hear a good argument for him being white to augment the colonial undertones of the character. Luke Cage needs to be black. T'Challa needs to be black (and more specifically, African). I can go on. Peter Parker has no such reasoning behind his whiteness, he just was by default and it would be just as "arbitrary" to say the character has to be white in this incarnation as to 'change' his color to suit the best actor that happens into an audition. .

I never read Miles Morales' Spiderman, and I'm more for keeping Spiderman a white Peter Parker (his original design) but no one needs to be their original race. In Thor, at first I was against Heimdall being black (with him being Norse), but Idris Elba was great, not to forget Nick Fury and Samuel's performance. I don't think any character has to be any race at this point.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

^ Except Samuel L Jackson is portraying Ultimate Nick Fury.

Back in 2001, Jackson gave his consent to Marvel to use his likeness for their new version of Nick Fury in Ultimate line. 616 Marvel Universe Fury is still white.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

There is nothing intrinsically white about the Peter Parker character. He is white because white was the default when he was created, no other reason.

Yeppers.

 

[Marsden]

Peter's a nobody in the MCU at this point, so killing him off in Civil War makes zero narrative sense. This is also why I don't expect him to play the same role as he did in the comic storyline, or even have as large a role. The Civil War of the MCU will be about government oversight of superhumans, not whether or not their identities should be a matter of public record.

Seriously, Miles Morales is not going to be showing up in the movies any time soon. He's popular among comic book fans, but I'm willing to bet that's as far as awareness of the character goes. The vast majority of people out there only know Peter Parker as Spider-Man. That's who they'll be expecting, and that's who they'll be getting.

I never heard of Miles Morales before I started reading these threads.

Peter Parker is not only known by movie fans, if the Spider-Man cartoon from the 60s has anything to say about it.

I never read Miles Morales' Spiderman, and I'm more for keeping Spiderman a white Peter Parker (his original design) but no one needs to be their original race. In Thor, at first I was against Heimdall being black (with him being Norse), but Idris Elba was great, not to forget Nick Fury and Samuel's performance. I don't think any character has to be any race at this point.

+1 Great post!


I'm baffled why anyone would want to change anything? I mean actively change it just to change it. And why black? If there's any other race that would make sense for Peter Parker, he'd be Asian or half Asian, possible half Asian and half Black. People of that ancestry are discriminated by almost everyone that does that kind of thing. Not everyone discriminates. But then it needs to be not a "thing" constantly mentioned. So if there is an actor that is great in the part, and they are not a certain race, fine they were best for the part. But just limiting it to only one kind of actors because of race seems very bad to me.

 

[bbjeg]

^ Except Samuel L Jackson is portraying Ultimate Nick Fury...

I know, but Ultimate NF still falls under a character they turned black (even though they retconned later that the original NF was Ultimate's father).

 

[TheSeeker]

I haven't read any of the Civil War stuff. Can anyone make some recommendations for TPB to read?

 

[Ethros]

Seen as he's coming to the MCU via Agents of SHIELD, with all this "race" stuff on here I feel the need to quote the great EJO

"There is only one race; the human race."
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSFDrOxWCXY[/yt]