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Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

What grade would you give the Marvel Cinematic Universe? (Ever-Changing Question)

  • Total voters
    185
Almost every non-Avengers MCU movie doesn't show the title until during the end credits, maybe it'll be one of those things where all the marketing calls it Falcon and the Winter Soldier but at the end of the last episode the title card will actually be Captain America and the Winter Soldier.
 
...Well if any 5'4" actor has the kind of range and talent it takes to convincingly pull off a 6'7" emerald green amazonian proportioned defence attorney, then it can only be Tatiana Maslany! ;)

Seriously though, while I'm not massively familiar with the character, I've always been under the impression that her more popular runs are where she's literally just an otherwise normal looking lawyer in a pantsuit...who just so happens to be green and super strong. A less drunken Jessica Jones with a "unique" complexion. So for the most part they can just go with that.

If the odd full-on Hulk-out is required then there's always CG and/or ex-MMA/pro-wrestling body doubles...and I think I kinda prefer the latter option, to carry on the tradition of Lou Ferrigno.
 
Yeah, she's not who I would have expected, but she's great so I'm not at all upset about the casting.
I find it kind of ironic that they this announced today, since I'm just one episode away from the introduction of her recurring character on Heartland.
 
Reverend said:
...Well if any 5'4" actor has the kind of range and talent it takes to convincingly pull off a 6'7" emerald green amazonian proportioned defence attorney, then it can only be Tatiana Maslany! ;)

Seriously though, while I'm not massively familiar with the character, I've always been under the impression that her more popular runs are where she's literally just an otherwise normal looking lawyer in a pantsuit...who just so happens to be green and super strong. A less drunken Jessica Jones with a "unique" complexion. So for the most part they can just go with that.

If the odd full-on Hulk-out is required then there's always CG and/or ex-MMA/pro-wrestling body doubles...and I think I kinda prefer the latter option, to carry on the tradition of Lou Ferrigno.
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When she's Jennifer Walters, she's supposed to be only 5 feet 1 IIRC.
 
Reverend said:
...Well if any 5'4" actor has the kind of range and talent it takes to convincingly pull off a 6'7" emerald green amazonian proportioned defence attorney, then it can only be Tatiana Maslany! ;)
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Damn right! :D

Reverend said:
Seriously though, while I'm not massively familiar with the character, I've always been under the impression that her more popular runs are where she's literally just an otherwise normal looking lawyer in a pantsuit...who just so happens to be green and super strong. A less drunken Jessica Jones with a "unique" complexion. So for the most part they can just go with that.
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I have to be honest, I'm only familiar with the basics of the character but I've always been curious about the storytelling potential. I was already somewhat interested in the show just for that, but having Maslany as the lead, I'm all in.

Reverend said:
If the odd full-on Hulk-out is required then there's always CG and/or ex-MMA/pro-wrestling body doubles...and I think I kinda prefer the latter option, to carry on the tradition of Lou Ferrigno.
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As much as I would love to continue the tradition of Lou Ferrigno, I imagine it'll be more like what we saw in Endgame.
 
The Nth Doctor said:
As much as I would love to continue the tradition of Lou Ferrigno, I imagine it'll be more like what we saw in Endgame.
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I know they're throwing a lot of money at these shows, but I'm not sure it's quite that much money. Performance capture has come a long way even in just the last few years but even so, getting a fully photo-real (almost) human looking character to animate and emote still takes a *lot* of finessing and a *lot* of render time.

Also, while She-Hulk is certainly a *big* lady, typically she's still proportioned a lot closer to what's physically possible compared to the Hulk...and by the admittedly skewed standards of what passes for "realistic female proportions" in comic book artwork.
Point being it's physically possible to take a very real flesh and blood person who is very fit and very tall, paint them green, stick them in a white leotard and/or suit, and (perhaps with a little forced perspective sleight of hand) still end up with a basically comic faithful character design.

The only potential complication is the face. Then it becomes a question of balancing cost against performance fidelity. Specifically whether they can get away with having the body double lipsynch Maslany's vocal performance and have it not look dumb, or whether they can CG graft Maslany's face onto said stunt double without it costing more than going for a full CG body replacement.

It all depends on the demands of the script and each scene. It's entirely possible they never actually have her go full She-Hulk in which case all this is moot. Hell, they could 100% lean into the idea that she's NOT huge making the "She-Hulk" moniker more ironic than literal. Again, not massively familiar with the 'She-Hulk' books, but I gather they tend to go at least semi-comedic with the concept.
 
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The Nth Doctor said:
I have to be honest, I'm only familiar with the basics of the character but I've always been curious about the storytelling potential. I was already somewhat interested in the show just for that, but having Maslany as the lead, I'm all in.
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The version of She-Hulk I'm familiar with is the John Byrne version from 1989-94 where she broke the fourth wall in the same way Deadpool would later on -- she knew she was a comic book character, she called out familiar comics tropes and cliches when they happened in her book, she argued with the writer and editor, she could step across panels to move between scenes or tear through the page to escape a villain, etc. Also, Byrne routinely pitted her against D-list, goofy villains and teamed her up with obscure or lame guest heroes (and occasionally with A-list heroes like Spidey and Mister Fantastic).

It would be fun if they did the show in that vein, having Shulkie know she's a TV character and ignore the fourth wall. Although these days, people would accuse the show of copying Deadpool.
 
Turtletrekker said:
As for whether or not the show will be comedic, it might be telling that the lead writer previously worked on Rick and Morty. In fact, she wrote the acclaimed, emmy winning "Pickle Rick" episode.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/rick-morty-scribe-write-marvels-she-hulk-1253300


(How fun and interesting that two of my favorite franchises have recently turned to the writers of Rick and Morty to expand their universes.)
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So, the writer of the absolute worst episode of Rick & Morty is writing She-Hulk, and they cast someone who would work better as She-Hulk's assistant or maybe her unpowered BFF as She-Hulk. This is going to be a fucking disaster. Are we sure Jeph Loeb was actually fired? I only ask because this screams "idiots that hate the comics making a comic book show", which was Loeb's MO while running the TV division. This is going to make Iron Fist or Inhumans look like the first few seasons of The Flash, quality wise.

I bet the show is going to use the dumb "Bruce Banner with lady bits" She-Hulk from the atrocious Mariko Tamaki book and Jason Aaron's putrid Avengers run, too. This really shows that the quality of Marvel TV isn't going to improve, its just going to be Loeb's style but without the asshole himself. Falcon & Winter Soldier and Wandavision might turn out ok because they star pre-established characters, but the shows introducing characters are completely fucked. I don't care if Ms. Marvel or Moon Knight's shows suck, because I don't care about those characters (although I want them to be good for the fans of those characters, I'm not invested in them at all). But She-Hulk is my favorite Marvel hero, and after being effectively dead since 2016(ish), it looks like the character won't be making a real comeback in any form of media in the forseeable future.
 
Reverend said:
I know they're throwing a lot of money at these shows, but I'm not sure it's quite that much money. Performance capture has come a long way even in just the last few years but even so, getting a fully photo-real (almost) human looking character to animate and emote still takes a *lot* of finessing and a *lot* of render time.

Also, while She-Hulk is certainly a *big* lady, typically she's still proportioned a lot closer to what's physically possible compared to the Hulk...and by the admittedly skewed standards of what passes for "realistic female proportions" in comic book artwork.

Point being it's physically possible to take a very real flesh and blood person who is very fit and very tall, paint them green, stick them in a white leotard and/or suit, and (perhaps with a little forced perspective sleight of hand) still end up with a basically comic faithful character design.

The only potential complication is the face. Then it becomes a question of balancing cost against performance fidelity. Specifically whether they can get away with having the body double lipsynch Maslany's vocal performance and have it not look dumb, or whether they can CG graft Maslany's face onto said stunt double without it costing more than going for a full CG body replacement.

It all depends on the demands of the script and each scene. It's entirely possible they never actually have her go full She-Hulk in which case all this is moot. Hell, they could 100% lean into the idea that she's NOT huge making the "She-Hulk" moniker more ironic than literal. Again, not massively familiar with the 'She-Hulk' books, but I gather they tend to go at least semi-comedic with the concept.
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Granted about the budget, but in the last few years, I've been increasingly impressed by the high quality of special effects for television shows. Obviously Game of Thrones leaps to mind but also shows like WestWorld, Discovery, Carnival Row, His Dark Materials, Stranger Things, For All Mankind, just to name a few, all do incredible work with their budgets. Granted we haven't seen much footage yet for either show, but I imagine The Falcon and The Winter Soldier and WandaVision will have their own fair amount of special effects.

It's not like Disney+ is going to skimp on the show with a well-known character (at least among fandom and even non-fandom will see the obvious connection) and a well-known actress in the leading role. Do we even know what the episode order is? 6, 8, 13 episodes? That'll help keep costs down.

Christopher said:
The version of She-Hulk I'm familiar with is the John Byrne version from 1989-94 where she broke the fourth wall in the same way Deadpool would later on -- she knew she was a comic book character, she called out familiar comics tropes and cliches when they happened in her book, she argued with the writer and editor, she could step across panels to move between scenes or tear through the page to escape a villain, etc. Also, Byrne routinely pitted her against D-list, goofy villains and teamed her up with obscure or lame guest heroes (and occasionally with A-list heroes like Spidey and Mister Fantastic).

It would be fun if they did the show in that vein, having Shulkie know she's a TV character and ignore the fourth wall. Although these days, people would accuse the show of copying Deadpool.
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I'd be down with that. That'll certainly give the show flavor beyond the surface appearance of being a procedural (I'm sure it won't be but I can see how it might perceived as such before viewing).
 
The Nth Doctor said:
Granted about the budget, but in the last few years, I've been increasingly impressed by the high quality of special effects for television shows. Obviously Game of Thrones leaps to mind but also shows like WestWorld, Discovery, Carnival Row, His Dark Materials, Stranger Things, For All Mankind, just to name a few, all do incredible work with their budgets. Granted we haven't seen much footage yet for either show, but I imagine The Falcon and The Winter Soldier and WandaVision will have their own fair amount of special effects.

It's not like Disney+ is going to skimp on the show with a well-known character (at least among fandom and even non-fandom will see the obvious connection) and a well-known actress in the leading role. Do we even know what the episode order is? 6, 8, 13 episodes? That'll help keep costs down.
Click to expand...

Note that none of those examples required a fully CG photo-real human capable of emoting. It's literally the hardest thing to do since the human brain is hardwired to notice anything "off" when it comes to other humans. Even the Hulk effect in the movies is a little uncanny valley, saved mostly by the green and the exaggerated proportions. Trying to do that on even a lavish TV budget for more than one scene a season seems more trouble than it's worth. Like I said though, it might not even be that kind of show.
 
I doubt they'll go down the permanently (She)Hulked out route. It'll be more like 80% Ally McBeal 20% Hulk Smash.

If it was me I'd be using the Dan Slott run as the jumping off point for the series but for some reason Disney never consult me before making any of their decisions....
 
StCoop said:
I doubt they'll go down the permanently (She)Hulked out route. It'll be more like 80% Ally McBeal 20% Hulk Smash.
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If it were a commercial-network show, sure. But this is a miniseries for a premium streaming service, produced by the same people who make the feature films.

Besides, Shulkie isn't the "smash" type, historically. What makes her a distinctive character is how unlike her cousin she is, how she's fully rational and calm and even happy being She-Hulk, preferring it to who she was as meek, timid Jennifer Walters. She basically starts out where Ruffalo's "Professor Hulk" is by the time of Endgame. Yes, I gather the recent comics have changed that to something more "smash"-y and angry, but that's not the iconic version of the character, and it's too much like what we've already seen before with the He-Hulk.
 
The Nth Doctor said:
I'm so thrilled to report that the amazing Tatiana Maslany has been cast as She-Hulk for the upcoming Disney+ series!
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I kind of feel sorry for Alison Brie, who seemed to almost have it in the bag. But, on the strength of her sometimes astonishing work on Orphan Black, I wouldn't be surprised to see Maslany owning both roles. I just hope that the show is conceptualised, written and rendered to a quality suggested by the casting of the lead.
 
Wereghost said:
I kind of feel sorry for Alison Brie, who seemed to almost have it in the bag. But, on the strength of her sometimes astonishing work on Orphan Black, I wouldn't be surprised to see Maslany owning both roles. I just hope that the show is conceptualised, written and rendered to a quality suggested by the casting of the lead.
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The only place I saw the Alison Brie rumor was Cosmic Book News, one of the most unreliable sources on the net.
 
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