I thought it was some sort of autocorrect or voice texting fail. But, yeah, I learned a new word today.
Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread
- Thread starter bbjeg
- Start date
I don't think I've seen it mentioned here yet, but J.K. Simmons says he has already filmed one more JJJ appearance with one more planned:
“Well yeah, [I’ll be back as J. Jonah Jameson] that’s the short answer. There is a future for J. Jonah Jameson after a several-year hiatus. He showed up very briefly for those who were wise enough to stay through the credits of Far from Home… There is one more JJJ appearance in the can, and from what I’m hearing there’s a plan for yet another. So hopefully JJJ will continue now and forever.”
Woops. Law school broke my brain and gave me a lot of words that became common place to me but not to normal people. Basically, something that is beyond the legal power to do so the action is basically void.
^ As I said, it's a good term for these times...except now the void part seems to be in question.
I can imagine there'll be a brief little one somewhere in Morbius probably
Which would typically make it a actus reus ex officio de facto fait accompli, no?
There's something about legal terminology that makes it feel like it's equal parts taxonomy and those certain kinds of culinary names that use non-english words to make mundane things feel fancier than they really are...
Does it have to have been one of the SPUMC movies? That would definitely limit the possibilities a lot more than all of the MCU.
Or was he a patriot, wrongfully abandoned by his country, returning to it to become king and bring Wakanda onto the world stage? He was not defeated rightfully in ritual combat. That combat should have happened without the Black Panther leaf running through his and T'Challa's veins.
Additionally, he did not accept T'Challa's challenge. They fought, but it was not for the crown under the challenge rules.
I can't argue with that.
But I'm not saying that what Killmonger did was right or that I agreed with him. I'm saying he committed no crime under Wakanda law and should not have died. He may have chosen to die rather than be treated, but he also did so under the assumption that he would be locked up.
I don't think that's correct. Yes, the rules were that to end the challenge, an opponent must die or yield, and neither happened. However, one rule that MUST exist, whether spoken or not, is that the combat must be one on one, with no outside help. For example, would the challenge be legit if one of T'Challa's soldiers killed Killmonger during combat, to help T'Challa? Or vice versa? Let's say one of the mountain people killed T'Challa during the combat while the fight was still going on? In other words, cheating.
Would the challenge be legit? I would think no. Or let's go the other route--T'Challa, while in combat, has his soldiers interfere and hold Killmonger down until he yields. Or during the fight, Killmonger holds T'Challa's mother and sister hostage and threatens to kill them unless T'Challa yields. A yield happens. Is that legit, or did outside forces interfere, ending the challenge illegally?
Otherwise, why have a challenge? Just kill the king.
And that's what happened with T'Challa. He was thrown over the waterfall, and would have died, until the mountain tribe helped him survive until his family gave him the Black Panther power which healed him.
Killmonger won fair and square. So he was the rightful king. T'Challa survived ONLY because of the interference of others in the one on one combat.
Bullshit. T'Challa never yielded nor perished. Until such time, Kilmonger could not legally become king. He wasn't a patriot, he was an usurprer and a war criminal.
I dunno... He was believed dead. It was only by luck that he survived. If everyone officially involved in the process believed in good faith that T'Challa had died and acted according to that conviction as the law dictated, then I don't think that would count as fraudulent even if it turned out to be untrue later on. I mean, aren't there some legal circumstances where someone being declared dead remains valid even if they're later found alive? At least in fiction, I've seen stories where someone was executed and survived/returned from the dead, and they were considered free and clear because the legal sentence of death was fulfilled even though it didn't stick.
He was neither. Again--T'Challa would have died but for interference by his family and friends. T'Challa is the true usurper. Under the rules, Killmonger won fair and square. He beat T'Challa in one on one combat fairly. He was no usurper. He had a right to challenge for the throne and T'Challa accepted.
Killmonger was the rightful king.
Are your trying to argue that you can cheat in this contest? That as long as you don't die or yield, anything else goes? Then why make it one on one? If T'Challa or Killmonger, in the middle of the fight, had the Black Panther leaf and took it, and then dominated the other combatant, is that legal?
T'Challa only survived by cheating. Killmonger won. He was the rightful king.
Further, Killmonger did not accept T'Challa's challenge, and when the fight happened, both had Black Panther powers and did not fight under the rules. It's T'Challa that is the actual usurper.
That reminds me of one of the Twilight Zone episodes in the 80s (or was it Amazing Stories)?
Killmonger doesn't have to have committed any crime under Wakandan law to be facing jailtime. He was an international terrorist and T'Challa isn't a backwoods dictator who shields murderers from justice.
That clearly was not why T'Challa fought Killmonger. He wanted his crown back, and instead of going through legal means, he staged a military coup. We have no idea if there is any kind of extradition treaty with the United States, and in the absence of one, Killmonger should have been free to live his life on Wakandan soil, just like Bucky Barnes did, only with even more of a claim, as Killmonger was a forgotten citizen of Wakanda.
As Wakanda enters the world stage, the legitimacy of T'Challa's government can easily be called into question. He staged a military coup and assassinated the rightful king of Wakanda.
And if he told everyone about Killmonger's plans to use Wakanda to start uprisings all over the world, they'd have thanked him for his Coup
That literally does not matter. Your complaint is that Killmonger 'shouldn't' go to Wakandan jail and therefore it's wrong to expect he will end up in jail. But we can 100% guarantee the UK will demand he stand trial there for murder and T'Challa has literally no good reason to refuse and a WHOLE LOT of good reasons to agree. Therefore, Killmonger winds up in jail regardless of whether anything he did in Wakanda specifically was illegal or not.
As for his government's legitimacy being called into question, that's literally what the Wakandan govt. is based on, it's how Killmonger got in in the first place, and it's guaranteed to happen again at some point no matter what. Coups and political plots against T'Challa's rule are the literal bread and butter of Black Panther stories.
Maybe, maybe not. It's also possible the world would be angry over the withheld technological and medical advances. It still wouldn't make T'Challa's rule legal.
The UN tends to frown on military coups.
You are assuming an extradition treaty exists. Wakanda has lived separate from the world, hiding most of who they are. And how much would the UK or the US really care about one person? Also, T'Challa does owe Killmonger--the sins of T'Chaka affected the life of Killmonger. Had T'Chaka done the right thing and brought Killmonger home, it would have been a very different life.
T'Challa may feel that exile in Wakanda might have been enough. Again, look how T'Challa reacted toward Bucky and gave him asylum. Plus, the whole thing might have to be analyzed under Wakandan law. For all we know, Killmonger's actions at the beginning of the movie, where we saw him reclaim stolen Wakandan artifacts and bring in a wanted terrorist to Wakanda might have been considered ok.
No one seemed to object when Killmonger was king.
He was given full rights of a Wakandan citizen.
But here's the thing--it wasn't T'Challa's rule that was the victim of a coup or political plot--it was Killmonger's. KILLMONGER was the rightful king. T'Challa is the one that plotted against him and illegally took back the throne.
I still have trouble remembering how all of the rules with that whole thing work.
Chiwetel Ejiofor has said that he is going to be back for The Multiverse of Madness. I'm glad to hear it, he was great in the first one.