In the Betazed culture, the male takes the females family name.
Amanda responds to "Mrs. Sarek" but I get the impression that's not how Vulcans do the married naming thing
Marriage in Star Trek
- Thread starter ZapBrannigan
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Amanda responds to "Mrs. Sarek" but I get the impression that's not how Vulcans do the married naming thing
I've always suspected that, but has it been actually confirmed? If so, where?
Trek is fictional....and even if you don't take that into account, it would still stand that marriage as a traditional amongst humans would originated in the man made concept/tradition we practice now.
Not all Earth cultures have the female take the male name on marriage e.g Chinese and Spanish woman do not, its probably an Anglo custom.
It was a one-year contract marriage. According to the novel, Admiral Nogura pushed Lori Ciana and Kirk together because he wanted Kirk to have more ties to Earth and not be apt to want his ship back.
Amanda responded to "Mrs. Sarek" out of courtesy, but the proper address would be either "Lady Amanda" or "Lady (Sarek's clan name, which is unpronounceable by humans)".
What's more objectionable is the notion that a married woman is referred to as "Mrs. Husband'sfirstname Husband'slastname." It really annoyed me when I was looking through one of my grandmother's old recipe books and saw that one of the recipes had been credited to "Mrs. Billy Fenwick." There was no mention of Mrs. Fenwick's first name. She was solely known by her married status and her husband's name.
In the province of Quebec, in Canada, it's actually illegal for married women to take their husband's last name upon marriage, although I suppose they could petition for a legal name change if they really wanted to. Normally they retain their original names.
Our Prime Minister's wife's original name was Sophie Gregoire, but I guess she caught so much flak from people outside of Quebec that she decided to change it to Sophie Gregoire-Trudeau, to appease the people who didn't like her not taking her husband's name.
Nearly 40 years ago, the wife of another Prime Minister flatly refused to take her husband's last name (the prevailing opinion of the time was "what kind of a man is he, that his own wife refuses to take his name? She must not love or respect him very much"). To this day she's still known by her original name, although nobody doubts that they're a happily married couple.
Lwaxana said so (I don't remember which episode). It makes sense, because Deanna's father's name is Ian Andrew, and I have a really hard time believing that a Scotsman's original last name would be "Troi."
^ Are you sure? I don't remember Lwaxana ever actually saying that.
And based on when we actually met Ian...he didn't seem very Scottish to me.
(In any case, 'Troi' is a vague enough sounding name that it could come from anywhere. This is 300 years in the future, after all...)
It's also important to point out that when TNG was first created, they didn't know which of Deanna's parents would be the alien. That's why, for example, she used that weird accent in the first season.
And based on when we actually met Ian...he didn't seem very Scottish to me.
(In any case, 'Troi' is a vague enough sounding name that it could come from anywhere. This is 300 years in the future, after all...)
It's also important to point out that when TNG was first created, they didn't know which of Deanna's parents would be the alien. That's why, for example, she used that weird accent in the first season.
When did we ever meet Deanna's father? I thought he was dead.^ Are you sure? I don't remember Lwaxana ever actually saying that.
And based on when we actually met Ian...he didn't seem very Scottish to me.
Deanna named her kid after him, and both "Ian" and "Andrew" are names that were often used in Scotland, so I just assumed that Deanna's father was Scottish, or at least from some part of the British Isles. And I couldn't figure out how "Troi" fit into that, because that's not any kind of Scottish name I ever heard of.
It struck me as somebody either misspelling "Troy" or "Trois" (which is French for "three", and which would be problematical for American actors to pronounce correctly from episode to episode; FFS, Beverly couldn't even pronounce "Jean-Luc" correctly).
They should have found a way to explain that goofy accent. Just say that Deanna did some kind of intership or immersion school thing on a planet where people spoke with that accent and she just picked it up and never managed to shake it. Or say that her father was human but lived on a colony where that's the accent people used and she picked it up from him.
It was just really sloppy character development, and as the seasons went on, her accent got slaaawpy and draaawly and by the time the movies and Voyager cameos came along I just wanted her to shut up and never speak.
The "Mrs Husband'sFirstName Husband's LastName" form, the "Mrs John Doe" form isn't even a name; it's a title. It means "The wife of John Doe" and totally anonymizes a woman, as if John Doe marries more than once, how do you tell one Mrs John Doe from another?
Hillary Clinton kept her own name when she married Bill in 1975, but there was such a fuss kicked up over that when he ran for governor in the early 80s, that she had to take his name if he was going to have any chance of being elected. In 1984, Geraldine Ferraro, the Democratic VP candidate ran under her own name (her husband was John Zaccaro), and some notice was made of it, but they'd been married for decades at this time with two names, so the flack for her wasn't as bad as for Hillary Clinton.
Never have understood how "Twah" is spelt Trois.
In the future, all Humans naming conventions should follow the Icelandic model.
We saw him in "Dark Page". And he was about as far from Scottish as you can be.
Names like Ian and Andrew are common over quite a lot of the English-speaking world.
As for Deanna's weird accent, the problem was that TPTB didn't let Marina Sirtis use her REAL accent. They didn't want two characters with British accents on the same bridge. Go figure.
Because in the future everyone will sound American even when they hail from Africa ...go figure.
(Except the French, Scots and the Russians)
It's due to vowel pronunciation changes over time in certain words in spoken form, while still maintaining an archaic spelling in writing that originally reflected the phonetic pronunciation of an old form closer to vulgar Latin.
Over the centuries, "oh-ee" becomes "oh-eh" and finally "oh-ah," which is mashed together as "wa."
But back to marriage in Star Trek...
Kor
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I have to wonder why Alice Krige had to affect an American accent to be the Borg Queen. You think they'd at least have given her a subvocal processor.Because in the future everyone will sound American even when they hail from Africa ...go figure.
That's not how it's pronounced. The "r" is rolled, fast, and some people pronounce it so fast (or so carelessly) that it just sounds like "twah".
Or so it is in the French I was taught from elementary school through university.
I think Tenacity was thinking more of the vowel/diphthong than the opening consonant cluster. To one unaccustomed to French orthography, "oi" looks like it should be pronounced like "oy." My post above gives some broad-strokes history on this.
Kor
It seemed to me that Tenacity was taking the "r" as being silent, when it really isn't.
It seemed to me that Tenacity was taking the "r" as being silent, when it really isn't.
I'm not disagreeing with this; in fact, to me it seemed weird to pronounce it like "oy". But then I grew up in a bilingual country where French is pretty much everywhere, even though I don't use it in my daily speech. It's on just about everything I buy, since we have bilingual product labels, and some of our newscasts are at least partially bilingual.
Marina Sirtis is of Greek descent. Ian Andrew Troi could also be of Greek descent, with his last name being an odd spelling of Troy.
That said, it's interesting to think of him as Mr. Ian Andrew who took on his royal wife's family name (Troi), due to its long Betazoid history, and nothing conflicts with that.
Also, apparently William Riker became William Troi in the first act of ST:Nemesis. Or at least that's how Picard subsequently addresses him, and even if it elicits a response supposed to be humorous, this doesn't mean the name change wouldn't be for real.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
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