Marriage in Star Trek

[Timewalker]

@Butters: There are several threads about money in the Federation, and I'd be happy to argue it out with you there.


Regarding marriage, now:

Inheritance is still a thing, even in TNG. After all, Lwaxana has proclaimed her status numerous times that she is the "Daughter of the Fifth House, Keeper/Holder (don't recall which) of the Sacred Chalice of Rixx, and Heir to the Holy Rings of Betazed."

Deanna retorts that she keeps these items in a shoe box in her closet, but even so, the status means a lot to Lwaxana. She regards it as something that's worth having, and something Deanna should want to be passed down to her as part of her Betazed heritage. It's strongly implied that for this to happen, Deanna needs to marry and have a daughter in order to keep the tradition going.

That may be why that stupid arranged marriage thing was supposed to happen with Wyatt Miller: Making sure the family's position in Betazed society wasn't jeopardized. And since Deanna obviously couldn't care less about that, she felt free to have whatever relationships she wanted, regardless of the fact that she'd eventually be expected to marry some other guy.

 

[φ of π]

"Next of Kin" is probably still a legal thing in the future, so I imagine marriage is still important for families.

 

[Tosk]

I can't think of a single financial transaction between federation citizens being shown on screen.

The weekly poker game on TNG.

--

As for next of kin, I'd imagine there'd be plenty of ways of dealing with that without needing marriage. Like the UK system, where blood means nothing. Inheritance is a different thing, again not requiring marriage.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

O'Brien and Keiko kind of highlight the issues. They just never quite knew what to do with Keiko. They finally got better at it nearer the end, but still never quite got any real momentum to their characterization.

I believe Larry Nemecek mentions that the producers wanted to feature the O'Brien more centrally, but Rosiland Chao was not interested in committing to more appearance,especially a regular role, if it took away from acting in film. What we got--Miles O'Brien's friendship with Bashir--was a means of making up for Chao's absence.

 

[Tenacity]

I can't think of a single financial transaction between federation citizens being shown on screen

Picard (a person, from a planet, in the Federation) while on vacation on Risa (a planet in the Federation) purchased a statue (Picard used the term "purchase"). Picard is seen in possession of the purchased statue.

 

[Timewalker]

I believe Larry Nemecek mentions that the producers wanted to feature the O'Brien more centrally, but Rosiland Chao was not interested in committing to more appearance,especially a regular role, if it took away from acting in film. What we got--Miles O'Brien's friendship with Bashir--was a means of making up for Chao's absence.

And thank goodness for that. I much preferred their "buddy" storyline, over more of that constant whiny "MY-yulz!" when she was bitching about his work, her work, his career, her career, his friends (did she have any friends?), his holodeck time with Julian (did she ever do holodeck programs other than the one when Molly was displaced in time?), his food, her food (some vegetarians/vegans can be so incredibly sanctimonious), and on and on and on...

The one time I liked her even a little was the episode about the school. It was great seeing her stand up to the condescending, smarmy, how-dare-you-not-teach-religion-in-science-class Kai Winn who referred to adult women as "Child" - as though they really were errant toddlers in need of correction.

 

[Tosk]

did she have any friends?

Yes.

 

[Timewalker]

Yes.

Who?

I mean DS9 friends, not Data or anyone else from the Enterprise.

I guess that botanist she met on Bajor would qualify, but what about on the station? Did Keiko have yoga classes with Kira and Dax? Did she drop by Quark's to shoot the breeze with Leeta (assuming Leeta got any breaks during her shift at the dabo tables)?

So who were her friends? She and Julian weren't particularly friendly. They had more of a rivalry for O'Brien. She didn't spend much time with Kira until Kira ended up as the surrogate for the O'Briens' second baby. And even then Kira just wanted to get back to work instead of spending so much time with them.

 

[Tosk]

I guess that botanist she met on Bajor would qualify

You guess? That's who I was thinking of. If Keiko feels comfortable enough to discuss her relationship with Sebarr, I'd call them pretty good friends.

but what about on the station?

No idea.

 

[Timewalker]

You guess? That's who I was thinking of. If Keiko feels comfortable enough to discuss her relationship with Sebarr, I'd call them pretty good friends.

No idea.

It's been at least 10 years since I last watched DS9, so I don't recall every detail. But I just noticed that Keiko has no on-station friends. She has acquaintances, but she doesn't socialize with them off-duty. Kira and Jadzia do holodeck programs together, but all Keiko does when she's not working is take care of the kids and whine and complain and bitch at her husband, and make him feel guilty no matter what he decides to do with his own time.

How he can put up with someone so passive-aggressive and jealous, I can't fathom. She clearly resents his friendship with Julian, but then pushes him to go do a holodeck program with him... so she can oomplain about it later, I guess, with the "you don't care about what I want, I gave up my career to follow you here, whine, whine, whine..." card.

 

[Nyotarules]

In the future amongst humans it would not/should not matter if humans get married or not as long as they reproduce. What other aliens do is another matter, but why assume non humans have the same family structures especially the non humanoid species? According to the novelverse there is a species where children never know who their father is, polyamourous relationships are the norm (Efrosians).

 

[Nyotarules]

And back to marriage, if your basic (and luxury) needs are covered, what's t point of marriage, from a legal point of view?

For the same reason stinking rich people get married, because they can.

 

[Butters]

For the same reason stinking rich people get married, because they can.

Stinking rich people still sign the legal contract, and extra stuff too to protect their assets. Not necessary if those assets and possessions are not at risk through divorce.

I think people of the federation will still marry, but the legal benefits of marriage won't be a factor. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Qonundrum]

Marriage is a human construct so it stands to reason that humans may reduce it's social importance as time moves on.

Based on pure fantasy or based on aspects of real life?

Most major Star Trek characters are single. In part that's due to the dynamics of one-hour action/adventure shows; the cops in T.J. Hooker weren't married either. But it seems like real life is catching up to TV. Star Trek might be right to portray marriage as a rare thing in the future:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/09/love-in-the-time-of-individualism/540474/

By the 23rd century, I wonder if Tomlinson and Martine in "Balance of Terror" would be seen as oddballs, eccentrics, for getting married. In a society where "consenting adult" is the only hall pass men need to find satisfaction, attractive men will be less inclined to commit to one woman (why are Kirk and Picard, such great catches, still single?).

Furthermore, when women have their own careers and paychecks, they feel no need to take up with less attractive men (who are presumably less satisfied being single, but can't do anything about it). And career women have a lot less free time to raise children anyway, so that's another reason to skip marriage.

No money in the 23rd or 24th centuries.

But the ugly people should be happy with latex toys and pr0n; all the pretty ones are dying from diseases that used to have cures until the pretty ones - who ironically weren't good at biology to begin with - now don't recover (or even die) from conditions that have no cure because previous "cures" were adapted to by the bacteria or virus involved. Woops. I imagine the choice of emotional heartache vs the actual ailment (with or without medication side effects) makes one preferable at some point?

Over time, the norms and expectations change, and marriage becomes the rare exception. This is also a culture whose birth rate is likely to fall below replacement, and thus one that is heading for extinction.

Or change back, because of a fear of extinction (another human construct).

Star Trek shows us all the benefits for single adults enjoying total freedom out there in the galaxy (no strings, no roots, even no planet needed while you do your own thing) but I wonder if the ensuing shortage of well-raised people has to be countered with super high-tech test tube baby factories or something weird like that. If Kirk stays single and childless, who parents the next generation's Kirk?

It shows us a lot of things, which I'll get back to in a moment because that other topic is so much more fun to talk about and everybody does it, no pun intended:

Kirk was being a sleazy whore and impregnating every woman in the galaxy, telling them what "love" is (to his warped skeezer* view, like he was quick to leave them very quickly afterwards), and not caring how many STDs he either picks up or passes around because what's "love" without spreading those to all sorts of innocent people because they were little more than a trick for his bedpost conquest notch count? That's where all the next generation of Kirks come from, and I doubt many would like him too much. Like David Marcus, since he for example took his mother's surname instead...

* source: "Tramp", Salt'n'Pepa, 1986. Great little song, fits Kirk (and my ex!) perfectly. Just don't listen to half the songs they make, some of which happen to manage to exonerate all men everywhere as a result...

Back to reality: Star Trek is a TV show, a work of fiction that shows ideals of its writers, some of which are on record in interviews saying they did it only to make money and thus counter to the point of the show to begin with and it must be nice to make money for having made little, but I digress -- almost always without any ideals or the work involved by their society's individuals to make it work.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

Based on pure fantasy or based on aspects of real life?

Real life. Marriage has it's roots in religion. As religion's influence reduces in the more educated and cosmopolitan parts of the world, and in the scientific world, the importance on the marriage ceremony is already reducing. Plenty of people now just see it as a commitment ceremony and as a result and increasing number believe that love and commitment is a quality that doesn't necessarily need rubber stamping with a certificate. Given the reduced influence of religion in the Star Trek universe I think it is reasonable to assume that those who would view it as having religious connotations would reduce in number and therefore those who ascribe meaning to marriage would also likely reduce. Outside of the Star Trek universe I would say it is a reasonable projection as well since the expansion of religion as a whole is continuing to slow, atheism and non affiliated continues to rise and the age of information increases. I don't think it is unreasonable to predict that several hundred years from now organised religion may even be something followed by only a minority of the global population.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

It's been at least 10 years since I last watched DS9, so I don't recall every detail. But I just noticed that Keiko has no on-station friends. She has acquaintances, but she doesn't socialize with them off-duty.

It would have been nice to see her and baby Molly go to play group and talk with some other moms in TNG, and have some non-work pals on DS9. She's the only teacher in her school; it's not like she can go hang out in the staff room with the other teachers.

Plenty of people now just see it as a commitment ceremony and as a result and increasing number believe that love and commitment is a quality that doesn't necessarily need rubber stamping with a certificate.

People have the ceremony for the party/celebration aspect of it - wearing white dresses, hanging with friends, parents want a big wedding, far away relatives reunite. But I suppose you could just have a family reunion, which isn't religious in nature, and wear a nice dress, if you weren't religious.

 

[Tenacity]

Marriage is a human construct .

We see many species on Trek that have marriage, the Vulcans and Klingons are two examples.

 

[Nyotarules]

For human society a committed relationship no matter what its called is good for the raising of children, there are enough studies on the harm divorce and single parenthood with no paternal/maternal involvement does to human children.

Just as births/adoptions/deaths etc are registered in society I can see in the Star Trek universe for humans, committed relationships are registered as well, whether its via a marriage ceremony, partnership agreement or civil partnership. I think in the TMP novel GR great idea was marriage contracts for just 5 years, which goes with his love instructor thing...mmmm.

 

[Sophie74656]

I've always assumed it was due to the nature of being in Starfleet. It can be dangerous and you can be on missions for very long time. I don't think it's that marriage is less popular, I just think the officers that we see have chosen not to marry because of their careers. But there are still plenty of married main characters. Even Captain Janeway was engaged.

 

[Six of Twelve]

In the future amongst humans it would not/should not matter if humans get married or not as long as they reproduce. What other aliens do is another matter, but why assume non humans have the same family structures especially the non humanoid species? According to the novelverse there is a species where children never know who their father is, polyamourous relationships are the norm (Efrosians).

There's also the Norvalans, like Jaffen from Voyager's Work Force, who stated, "I'm Norvalan, I don't have a father". He must have meant there was no social role of father, because if there were no biological fathers, then there would be no males, as there would be no biological need for them. Humans are a sexually dimorphic species, male and female, because both sexes are needed to effect reproduction. So, for Jaffen to exist as a male in a society where there are "no fathers" has to mean that fathers play no social role in a family with children, but merely go their own way once conception has occurred, as is common among many animal species on Earth, not that females reproduce by themselves.

I find it odd that they have so many alien species who are monogamous, just like 20th century humans (and who says that monogamy will still be prevalent in the 24th century, even for humans?). I'm thinking of the Cardassians, where Dukat's wife left him after she discovered Ziyal's existence and of Garak speaking disapprovingly of Dukat's libertine ways.

In fact, multi-partner relationships might work better for raising children - the more adults around to care for children, the less any one parent would need to have to curtail their vocational interests and space travel. Either that, or the extended family might make a comeback, where grandparents, uncles/aunts, etc would be around to help with such things, rather than isolated nuclear families.

One thing I found eye-rolling is that women changing their surnames at marriage is still the dominant thing in the 24th century. In a society where equality of the sexes has presumably been achieved long before, I don't find it believable that this custom would still hold sway, considering that the first American woman to retain her own surname after marriage (Lucy Stone), did so in 1855. Beverly Howard Crusher takes the name of both her husbands and even keeps Picard's name after their divorce! Same with Keiko Ishikawa O'Brien. B'Elanna Torres was the only one who kept her own name - and even then, there was a discussion about it, which showed that doing so was still unusual and sufficiently an issue that she had to offer a good enough reason to justify her choice. And even then, Baby Miral automatically got her father's last name only by default, when I think by then it could be either parent's name, both parents' names, a surname of their own, or that the entire family gets a new surname upon the birth of children - that is, no default, but choices.