And even in the event that there were Cardassians who continued to live on a planet that was ceded to the Federation, what were they going to resist against, democracy and free speech?
Marqi did no wrong change my mind
- Thread starter Crazyewok
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Considering that there was a Cardassian resistance against their horrible, oppressive government I could even see some Cardassians on the ceded planets attempting to hide in the wilderness to resist forced relocations deeper into their Empire so that they can become Federation citizens and enjoy some freedom.
Communism.
The farmers didn't own anything, beyond every member of the Federation owns the entire Federation, and everything in the Federation equally and evenly.
It was not the Farmers land to keep.
The Maquis did wrong the moment they chose to engage in murderous and destructive violence rather than peacefully relocating to a new colony in the Federation. No piece of dirt is worth the blood spilt. Violent aggression is a sign of failure when peaceful options are available.
As Citizens of the Cardadsian Union... Were the human farmers allowed to defect, when quite frankly having joined a Union were they have to sell their crops, and pay taxes on everything, it's highly likely that all the Human farmers, completely ignorant to this way of life, would have been in a debtors prison by 2371.
Leaving Cardadsian Space, even giving away, selling or abandoning their land is time, paperwork and money in triplicate.
They'd have contracts with their suppliers, and markets, especially if it was the government, that would have to be honoured to avoid penalties.
If they don't have Cardadsian money before the first Harvest, they can't buy tickets or transit, and they'll be turned away at the border for having no paperwork.
The human farmers absolutely cannot leave Cardassian Space easily or quickly.
You gotta remember, that the community we saw in the episode was close to %100 Native American. Picard even made a speech about how "we stole their land and marched half of them to their deaths 500 years ago, so it would be crass to do it again."
If this was a settlement of white people, like in Star Trek Insurrection, the settlers would have just been transported against their will into orbiting ships and then held in suspension for 40 minutes until they found a fallback colony on the other side of the border.
History f#cked them.
.When the Maquis were first introduced, I was more on their side. They were defending their homes.
Then they went and stole the Defiant. Then they destroyed outposts and ships in Cardassian space.
Then they stole 12 Federation industrial replicators.
Then they attacked TWO Starfleet ships. And attacked two Federation freighters and stole their cargo. And turned that cargo into biological weapons. And poisoned TWO Cardassian colonies.
In other words, they went from defending their homes to attacking outside their territory. From a defensive posture to a completely offensive one.
They lost my sympathy when they moved past defending their homes.
Then they went and stole the Defiant. Then they destroyed outposts and ships in Cardassian space.
Then they stole 12 Federation industrial replicators.
Then they attacked TWO Starfleet ships. And attacked two Federation freighters and stole their cargo. And turned that cargo into biological weapons. And poisoned TWO Cardassian colonies.
In other words, they went from defending their homes to attacking outside their territory. From a defensive posture to a completely offensive one.
They lost my sympathy when they moved past defending their homes.
That was just manipulative storytelling. Pretty much everybody agrees that what happened to the Native Americans in real world history was a crime, it was objectively a crime in my opinion.
So if a writer then chooses a fictional Native American nation as a soundboard for their controversial, and in the end pretty weak and plot-hole written, resistance storyline then it seems to me like the writer is trying to manipulate the audience into agreeing with their storyline.
Back in 1990-whatever I misunderstood who Picard was talking about because I had recently seen the TOS episode The Paradise Syndrome, where the Preservers moved some Native Americans to space, centuries before Christopher Columbus did not discover America.
Rewatching the episode years later, I said "Doh".
According to the Voyager bible, Chakotay's Tribe left Earth in the early 23rd century under their own power, probably because Whitey took their land all over again, after America dissolved and was assimilated by the United Earth.
So was Picard talking about the 18th and 19th century, where "they" took America, or the 22nd century when the United Earth disenfranchised Native American culture, 85 years after World War three undid the United States.
Almost certainly the Cowboy stuff.
If the case that sounds like tyranny.
Gives the Marqui a even better reason to rebel.
That was there homes. Why should they relocate?
If ones home and family are not worth fighting for then what is?
It's asymmetric warfare. You can't play fair or you will lose.
When a weaker opponent faces a stronger then you have to fight dirty.
You also can't expect to garner sympathy by attacking outposts and worlds that are not even in the Maquis colonists' territory.
Going after places that have NO connection to those colonists' homes is not right at all.
(And before civilian Cardassians being killed by the Bajoran resistance is brought up, their entire homeworld and their system was occupied. They only attacked the Cardassians in Bajoran territory. They were fighting invaders. When the Maquis stole the Defiant in "DEFIANT" and poisoned those worlds in "FOR THE UNIFORM", the Maquis became the invaders.)
And multiple officers who were not colonists joined them, moving the Maquis movement from a home defense to a full on terrorism movement against both the Cardassians and the Federation. Not against tyranny, but perceived tyranny for imagined slights because of a political decision they didn't agree with.
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Exactly. And virtually all of those officers we see used their position to help the Maquis while still wearing the uniform... in other words, being a traitor. (With the exception of Chakotay, who actually did the correct, honest, and honorable thing and resigned before going to the Maquis.)
They were given opportunity to evacuate prior to the planet being handed over to the Cardassians, as depicted in "Journey's End". So, they could leave freely and at the expense of the Federation, or they could wait and try to defect at their own expense.
They did not have to leave. They could have stayed and lived under Cardassian rule. Of course, the Cardassians might have ended up evicting them anyway.
The physical building or land where I live is not worth the life of the ones I love. Given the option of either fleeing to safety WITH MY FAMILY or risking their lives for the sake of staying put, I choose life.
Ask the dead if their sacrifice was worth staying and facing the approaching catastrophe.
"You're trying to be a hero. Terrorists don't get to be heroes."
Truth, from Kira Nerys.
Almost all the Maquis we meet fit the bill of trying to be heroes, fighting for ideals, but not for homes. They are not motivated by the injustice caused by the treaty, but by other interests, many of them overly romanticized.
What I never understood is... OK, so they don't want to leave & accept the consequences of no longer being under UFP jurisdiction. Fine. Gonna suck for you, but that's your choice. The ties have been cut & I can actually get behind that, from either PoV
So then, as expected, things begin to suck & an insurgency comes about, & it becomes an ugly issue for those their rebelling against. HTF is this our issue anymore?
They use to be our people. They're your problem now. Why should Starfleet give a damn about the internal rebellions happening on some disconnected world... regardless of whether they're undertaken by former UFP citizens?
You took em. You took the good with the bad. Now I can see not wanting there to be underground support happening from our side, but ultimately their resourses are their own, & if they get to being tough customers, not my problem to fix for y'all. We are out of it, no matter what happens. So, maybe I missed some of it, but while I don't support the Maqui, I don't condemn them either, nor do I act against them. I'm Switzerland Bubba
So then, as expected, things begin to suck & an insurgency comes about, & it becomes an ugly issue for those their rebelling against. HTF is this our issue anymore?
They use to be our people. They're your problem now. Why should Starfleet give a damn about the internal rebellions happening on some disconnected world... regardless of whether they're undertaken by former UFP citizens?
You took em. You took the good with the bad. Now I can see not wanting there to be underground support happening from our side, but ultimately their resourses are their own, & if they get to being tough customers, not my problem to fix for y'all. We are out of it, no matter what happens. So, maybe I missed some of it, but while I don't support the Maqui, I don't condemn them either, nor do I act against them. I'm Switzerland Bubba
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