Mainstream Publishing Industry Says it Will KEEP OUT Trump Supporters

[yotsuya]

Easy. I don't consider opposition to illegal immigration to be racism. I oppose it because IT'S A CRIME, not because the people who practice it happen to have brown skin.

Further, the worst criminals are not the immigrants themselves. Rather, they are the corrupt and inept leaders of Latin American countries who made their citizens' lives hell, AND the fat cat American businessmen who exploited this by hiring illegals to fatten their own profit margin. They've created a horrific mess, with a lot of innocent victims caught in the middle.

If you're going to regard me as a racist for denouncing illegal immigration, and the system that created it, I can't stop you. But you'll never get me to agree with you.

You are seriously ill informed on what constitutes illegal immigration. Sure there are some who cross the borders illegally, but most people in this country illegally have overstayed their visa. That instantly cuts all numbers in half and recenters where they are from. The other group are refugees, which are a special case. When you remove those from the numbers it drops even more. So illegal immigration is not as dire as Trump and the Republican party made it out be. Trump actually went against US and international law on a number of things. Fortunately he did it through executive order so it can be reversed as easily. Trump's use of immigration was racially motivated. He was trying to make scape goats of illegal immigrants from Mexico following the fascist playbook of Hitler. Rather than focusing on one group, he put two together, Latinos and Muslims. I am all in favor of doing something about the illegal immigration this country is dealing with, but it needs to be done in the system and closing the border and kicking everyone illegal out is not the answer. DACA is one of the ways to fix part of the problem. It will eventually take care of itself because the next generation will be American born and citizens (like all our ancestors).

My political point of view can best be described as apolitical but relying heaving on the study of science and history and other pieces of reality.

 

[StarMan]

I'm Canadian, and I believe that the Democratic Party is a liberal political party, albeit not a perfect political party (because nothing created by human being is perfect), and was better at most things than the Republicans have been this past century. Don't believe me? Check out Obama's record of accomplishments here, then get back to me.

And no, I myself have never marginalized what Trump supporters are like, ever.

Here in NZ, the Democrats are closer to our major right-wing party (National). The "radical" left that keeps conservatives awake at night in fear of the US turning into a former Soviet Bloc state would be just left of centre.

 

[Oddish]

Comparing Donald Trump with Adolf Hitler is completely laughable. Under Trump's rule, before Covid essentially destroyed things, our minority population had the lowest unemployment rate in decades. Under Hitler's, they would either be dead or herded into ghettos.

You have destroyed your credibility with that inane remark.

 

[Finn]

Comparing Donald Trump with Adolf Hitler is completely laughable. Under Trump's rule, before Covid essentially destroyed things, our minority population had the lowest unemployment rate in decades. Under Hitler's, they would either be dead or herded into ghettos.

You have destroyed your credibility with that inane remark.

You are twisting that comment.... He was talking about scapegoating minorities/ marginalized people...

 

[Relayer1]

Here in NZ, the Democrats are closer to our major right-wing party (National). The "radical" left that keeps conservatives awake at night in fear of the US turning into a former Soviet Bloc state would be just left of centre.

And that's only the likes of Bernie and AOC, who are outliers in the party. The bulk of the Democrats are right and centre right.

Sadly the whole American political spectrum is distorted rightwards. They're terrified of socialism being imposed by mainstream conservatives.

Go figure.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

They're terrified of socialism being imposed by mainstream conservatives.

A swing and a miss, there. Mainstream conservatives do not "terrify" the US into adhering to any particular ideology. (I mean, you have a dangling modifier there, but I assume you mean that "they" are being terrified by mainstream conservatives, not that there is a threat of mainstream conservatives imposing socialism. )

If you're interested in attaining a more accurate understanding of why socialism is political poison in mainstream American, perhaps you should review the Cold War. Yes, it's been over for thirty years, but it still casts a long shadow.

 

[Relayer1]

A swing and a miss, there. Mainstream conservatives do not "terrify" the US into adhering to any particular ideology. (I mean, you have a dangling modifier there, but I assume you mean that "they" are being terrified by mainstream conservatives, not that there is a threat of mainstream conservatives imposing socialism. )

If you're interested in attaining a more accurate understanding of why socialism is political poison in mainstream American, perhaps you should review the Cold War. Yes, it's been over for thirty years, but it still casts a long shadow.

No, my meaning was that there seems to be a false narrative that a mainstream conservative party like the Democrats will, for some unfathomable reason, impose socialism.

It's disingenuous and it's fearmongering. Disingenuous as it's clearly a falsehood, fearmongering as the proposed "socialised health care" is nothing to be afraid of. Not in the rest of the world, anyway.

Yeah, I'm old enough (57) to be kind of familiar with the Cold War. Europe was...also involved. Just a little.

We do, however, understand the difference between communism and socialism. For the most part, anyway. There's a vast, vast difference between the two, which amuses us when we hear, for instance, state provided healthcare described as "communism".

I'd describe myself as leaning towards democratic socialism or social democracy, depending on your definition and understanding. I currently favour a mixture of state and private sector ownership, but as we move (hopefully) towards a post scarcity environment expect state ownership to dominate.

But coming back to my earlier post, no the Democrats aren't going to impose socialism. But 'some' people act as if they will.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

No, my meaning was that there seems to be a false narrative that a mainstream conservative party like the Democrats will, for some unfathomable reason, impose socialism.

It's disingenuous and it's fearmongering. Disingenuous as it's clearly a falsehood, fearmongering as the proposed "socialised health care" is nothing to be afraid of. Not in the rest of the world, anyway.

Yeah, I'm old enough (57) to be kind of familiar with the Cold War. Europe was...also involved. Just a little.

We do, however, understand the difference between communism and socialism. For the most part, anyway. There's a vast, vast difference between the two, which amuses us when we hear, for instance, state provided healthcare described as "communism".

I'd describe myself as leaning towards democratic socialism or social democracy, depending on your definition and understanding. I currently favour a mixture of state and private sector ownership, but as we move (hopefully) towards a post scarcity environment expect state ownership to dominate.

But coming back to my earlier post, no the Democrats aren't going to impose socialism. But 'some' people act as if they will.

What you call mainstream conservatives aren't mainstream conservatives here in the US, so there's absolutely no chance of socialism being imposed by mainstream conservatives in the US, full stop.

 

[cardinal biggles]

So if Biden and other moderate Democrats are the equivalent of mainstream European conservatives, what does that make Mitch McConnell? Nigel Farage? U.S. politics is so ridiculously skewed to the right that either the analogy breaks down, or mainstream Republicans really are one step short of full-on fascism (which the extremist wing of their party already seems to have embraced with abandon).

 

[Relayer1]

What you call mainstream conservatives aren't mainstream conservatives here in the US, so there's absolutely no chance of socialism being imposed by mainstream conservatives in the US, full stop.

Yes, that's EXACTLY my point.

Democrats are mainstream conservatives.

I saw Republican supporters saying how important it was to keep Biden out to prevent him bringing socialism to the U.S.A.

He was NEVER going to bring socialism to the U.S.A. but the Republican narrative is that everything not as far to the right as the Republicans is socialism.

 

[Relayer1]

So if Biden and other moderate Democrats are the equivalent of mainstream European conservatives, what does that make Mitch McConnell? Nigel Farage? U.S. politics is so ridiculously skewed to the right that either the analogy breaks down, or mainstream Republicans really are one step short of full-on fascism (which the extremist wing of their party already seems to have embraced with abandon).

Farage attracted a lot of the British far right. It was the first time a lot of those voters had a candidate that appealed to them. He also took votes from the right extreme of the Conservative party. So concerned were they that they lurched further to the right also.

I don't think the mainstream Republicans are actually verging on fascism, but under Trump it looked like things were heading that way - unapologetically too. They've got a big choice to make now.

 

[J.T.B.]

I saw Republican supporters saying how important it was to keep Biden out to prevent him bringing socialism to the U.S.A.

He was NEVER going to bring socialism to the U.S.A. but the Republican narrative is that everything not as far to the right as the Republicans is socialism.

And Obama before him. There is very little understanding of these terms as they're thrown around in the US today. That's how you get classic lines like "Keep the goddamn government out of my social security!"

The former governor of my state who left office in January has announced that he will be devoting his next efforts to an institute that will teach the virtues of free market capitalism and the evils of socialism... at a government-funded, public employee-staffed university!

Farage attracted a lot of the British far right. It was the first time a lot of those voters had a candidate that appealed to them. He also took votes from the right extreme of the Conservative party. So concerned were they that they lurched further to the right also.

Wasn't that the real origin of Brexit, Cameron thought it would fail and get a defeated UKIP off his back once and for all?

 

[Awesome Possum]

I think that allowing genetic males in women's sports is unfair (and sports have to be fair, or they're pointless).

First of all, this is blatant transphobia and you're profoundly ignorant of how HRT works. Also outside of the fevered minds of transphobes this has been settled by the International Olympic Committee.

In 2003, a committee convened by the International Olympic Committee (IOC) Medical Commission drew up new guidelines for participation of athletes who had undergone gender reassignment. The report listed three conditions for participation. First, athletes must have undergone sex reassignment surgery, including changes in the external genitalia and gonadectomy. Second, athletes must show legal recognition of their gender. Third, athletes must have undergone hormone therapy for an appropriate time before participation, with two years being the suggested time.[5]

It was not until 2004 that the IOC allowed transgender athletes to participate in the Olympic Games.[6]

In 2015, the IOC modified these guidelines in recognition that legal recognition of gender could be difficult in countries where gender transition is not legal, and that requiring surgery in otherwise healthy individuals "may be inconsistent with developing legislation and notions of human rights".[7][8] The new guidelines require only that trans woman athletes declare their gender and not change that assertion for four years, as well as demonstrate a testosterone level of less than 10 nanomoles per liter for at least one year prior to competition and throughout the period of eligibility. Athletes who transitioned from female to male were allowed to compete without restriction. These guidelines were in effect for the 2016 Rio Olympics, although no openly transgender athletes competed.[9]

Granted that isn't good enough for transphobes since their goal is just to hurt trans people while claiming they're protecting someone else.

 

[Relayer1]

The former governor of my state who left office in January has announced that he will be devoting his next efforts to an institute that will teach the virtues of free market capitalism and the evils of socialism... at a government-funded, public employee-staffed university!

That simply shouldn't be allowed, both legally, nor by any university administration committed to knowledge, fact and critical decision making.

Wasn't that the real origin of Brexit, Cameron thought it would fail and get a defeated UKIP off his back once and for all?

Partially. There had also been decades of factional infighting regarding E.U. membership within the Conservative party.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Cancel culture isn't real either, it's the same old political correctness bullshit from the 90s. It's just bigots being upset they can't use slurs without consequences anymore. They want to be able to use the n-word, push fascism and want to violently overthrow the government, and openly harass minority groups without anyone trying to stop them. Thankfully it isn't working for them anymore, so they're reduced to claiming they're the victims of those mean minorities demanding equality. Fuck them.

 

[Captain Crow]

If you're a gay couple and some baker refuses to bake you a cake, you simply find a baker who will; you don't get to ruin the baker's livelihood with a six-figure lawsuit.

If one is a bigot maybe they ought not be in an industry were they might have to interact with targets of their bigotry.

 

[Awesome Possum]

If it's okay for a baker to deny a cake to a gay couple then it's fine for a book publisher to deny publishing rights to a conservative. If a gay couple doesn't have a right to a cake then conservatives don't have a right to get their drivel published. Unless this is just about excluding LGBTQ people.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The problem with a lot of you people is that you see racism and other forms of discrimination where it's not actually there. Requiring that immigrants follow our procedures for entering our country is not racism... it's rule of law.

And making it difficult for said immigrants to follow those procedures because you don't think people of their race should comprise the genetic makeup of your country, and then calling them all rapists is racism.

At least half of Trump supporters are racists. Not all of them are KKK style "We hate people of this race and want to violently hurt them racists". A lot more are "Leave me alone and don't complain about the inequities that make my life easier and safer than yours" racists.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Calling Trump a racist because he supported rule of law regarding undocumented immigrants is false. If we want open borders, then Congress should enact open borders: introduce a bill, vote on it, have Biden sign it into law. What we're doing now, declaring undocumented immigration to be illegal but just letting them in anyway, is beyond ridiculous.

That's a simplistic, naive assessment of the situation. Contrary to what Hannity will tell you, most democrats don't want totally open borders. They want a sane process that makes it so people fleeing violence can lawfully apply for asylum. Then if they come over illegally but don't commit any other crimes, they want them given a fair trial and compassionately and humanely dealt with. Trump went out of his way to make it very, very difficult to come in legally, very difficult to even get the information you need for how to apply legally, and he made the conditions of detainment inhumanly brutal. He's not only against illegal immigration, he hates legal immigration just as much. And what he did wasn't enforce the law, it was inhuman brutality. Motivated by just not wanting Mexicans and South Americans in the country at all. He did the same thing when he ran an ad saying we should ban all Muslims from the country and make people register as Muslim.

Some of the people he deported were full grown adults brought here by their parents when they were 2, have never committed a crime and have never known any country but the US. And if you came over illegally because it was impossible to come over legally, because it was the only way to avoid being murdered by gangs, then committed no other crimes it's a 'Stealing a loaf of bread to feed your starving family' situation.

Yes, there are other reasons than racism people voted for Trump. Like, homophobia and transphobia. Or just generally thinking Christian culture is the only one that should be welcome in the US. Some of them just wanted economic deregulation and didn't give a damn what he did to anyone else. Those ones weren't racist, but they were unbothered by racism.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

So because there is a single incident with one group of reactionary whackos, all 70 million Trump supporters are violent, lawless, nightgown-wearing racists... what about the DOZENS of similar demonstrations in cities all over the country by people on the opposite side of the spectrum? Pot calling the kettle black, anyone?

That comparison is ridiculous. Comparing black lives matter protests, the vast majority of which were peaceful, and never got more violent than a few broken windows to violently invading the capitol building to overthrow the government? Are you serious?