Mainstream Publishing Industry Says it Will KEEP OUT Trump Supporters

Discussion in 'TV & Media' started by Shaka Zulu, Jan 22, 2021.

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  1. 1001001

    1001001 Pull Up a Groove and Get Fabulous! Moderator

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    Oh my God... :lol:

    That definitely proves someone is not anti-gay.

    :lol:

    Setting aside for a moment the incredible hypocrisy of saying a bakery can choose not to serve gay people but publishers can't choose not to publish white supremacists...

    You cannot set-up your shop in the public square and deny service to members of the public. You know the street your bakery is on? Funded and maintained by taxpayers. The sidewalk your customers walk on and the street lights that guide them? Paid for by taxpayers. The police and firefighters who protect your store? Paid for by taxpayers. The systems that bring water and power to your store? The sewer system? Flood control mitigation? Paid for by taxpayers. ALL TAXPAYERS.

    I would also be curious as to how many cakes that bakery has made for adulterers? Tax cheats? Child abusers? Are they running background checks on all their customers to be sure they're worthy of a cake?

    :shrug:

    This kind of nonsense is just more proof that religious zealots are not interested in religious freedom (which they already have), they're interested in forcing their religious beliefs on everyone else.

    And when we reject that, they play the victim.
     
  2. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored This is the Way Moderator

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    If you havin' Trump problems I feel bad for you, son
    You've got 99 examples of whataboutism
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2021
  3. LadyMondegreen

    LadyMondegreen Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I don't agree with discriminating against customers on the basis of sexual orientation, but I also don't think that argument holds up. A business existing in a publicly available space doesn't obligate them to serve every member of the public -- whoever owns the building where the business operates pays property tax for that space, and the business pays taxes for their operation. There's not a general principle that having a building served by public amenities means that every taxpayer can partake of your services.

    The bakery owner who refused to bake a cake for a same-sex wedding is someone I would not want to be friends with, and being bisexual with many gay friends and family members, I think gay weddings and gay wedding cakes are great. But I'm not sure I think refusing service for a gay wedding should be illegal, no matter how distasteful I find it. I wouldn't, for example, want it to be illegal for a business to only make cakes for same-sex weddings.
     
  4. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored This is the Way Moderator

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    It doesn't seem like a big deal when you seemingly have lots of choices. Like, why don't they just go to another bakery? Of course, that's leaving out how devastating that bigotry would be to the people it's targeted at.

    But what happens when you're in a small town in a food desert and the local grocery store decides it doesn't want to serve gays, forcing them to drive 20 miles out of their way? What if its an emergency and you need first aid supplies or baby formula and the local shop is the only option you can get to in time?

    And why should anyone face discrimination because of who they are? Stores have a right to refuse service to customers that are causing trouble, but they shouldn't do it because you are transgender or gay.

    If you want to operate a business there are rules and regulations you must adhere to. It's not a free-for-all libertarian paradise where you can ignore health code violations (unless you're Chipotle) and do whatever you want. You make a social contract with the public, and as long as they aren't causing you harm, you should serve them regardless of your personal hangups.
     
  5. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Commodore Commodore

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    So thats an Obama quote of "You didn't build that"? That there are roads, bridges, etc?

    So, lets use an example.

    Your a bakery, you are virulently anti trump, a person comes up and asks for a cake, and asks for the decoration "Stolen Election, 4 more years!) Now what do you do? This goes against your morals, what you believe is right, Can you refuse service? What if it was a Neo Nazi, and asking for a swastika cake with happy 100th birthday Hitler, or on the other side what if it was an Antifa person asking for a decoration of Pigs in a Blanket, or if you were pro trump, someone comes up and asks for a severed trump head decoration?? There all nice, not causing a scene in the store, normally dressed etc.

    Are any of these examples of a cake that you can refuse to make? That you say, sorry sir/madam/Humanoid this cake goes against my morals, and I can't make it for you, please take your business someplace else.

    Under your theory of your in the public square and have to serve the public means that you CAN'T refuse the service of any of these examples and HAVE to make the cake, even though you don't want to.

    Now you can't refuse to sell say band-aids to a neo nazi, or gay man, etc. that is defiantly illegal, and a false argument on this case.
     
  6. Jedi_Master

    Jedi_Master Admiral Admiral

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    In regards the video referenced in the OP:

    Generally, authors can find another publishing house that will print their work, or if they are savvy, they can make a huge fuss on sympathetic media outlets, promote their self published book, and go their merry way. Senator Hawley's "cancelled" book will be published by a subsidiary of Simon and Schuster (who "cancelled" him) and the resultant media attention will likely make it a best seller.

    Complaining on YouTube/Facebook/Twitter and on sympathetic news media is the modern day equivalent of hitting the late-night talk show circuit.
     
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  7. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Biden has apologized, repeatedly. Trump, not.

    But what I was talking about is something different. Trump had white nationalist and racist organizations openly and publicly supporting him from the 2016 campaign onwards. He could have given a speech or released a statement where he clearly repudiated those groups and what they stood for, rejected their support and so on. He never did.

    Remember, this applies to (20?) states where the voters have decided that discrimination laws apply to sexual orientation as well as race, religion, gender, disability etc. If you substitute any of those categories for "sexual orientation" does it still sound reasonable?

    Do these Nazis, Antifas etc. fall under a protected class in your state's anti-discrimination laws? That's the key.
     
  8. 1001001

    1001001 Pull Up a Groove and Get Fabulous! Moderator

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    If I owned a store, I would sell my products to anyone who has the money and is legally allowed to purchase the item.

    Full stop.

    I don't need my drycleaner or grocer deciding whether or not I'm a worthy enough person to engage their services.

    What kind of society would that be?
     
  9. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored This is the Way Moderator

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    Nope, I neither quoted anything by President Obama or said anything about you (general you) "not building your own business" (but it's interesting that you manufactured those out of whole cloth to build yourself up into a lather). I said operating a business is a social contract with the public that requires you to adhere to certain rules and regulations in order to remain open.
    Pro-Trump/election denial cake yes, since unless it's taken to the extreme of the Capitol insurrection it's a relatively benign but stupid opinion in the hands of an individual.

    Not even going to dignify the pigs in a blanket one with a response since it was said in Minnesota by a group unafilliated with BLM (not even your Antifa boogeyman) and was blown out of proportion by Trump and right wing media ever since.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/politics/fact-check-trump-pigs-blanket-black-lives-matter/index.html

    Neo-Nazis and Swastika cakes and severed Trump head cake, no. It's frankly offensive to even bring up a symbol of hate and practioners of hate crimes in comparison to someone being gay or trans who are often the target of said Nazis and don't cause anyone harm. Supporting Nazism is a choice, unlike being gay or trans. Nazis have a long history of carrying out their violence against innocents. Gay and trans people do not.

    The severed head of Trump would be both illegal (and might result in a Secret Service visit) and unethical since whatever he's done I don't support violence against him.

    Actually no, but I recall your utterly inane slippery slope arguments and whataboutism in defense of Trump despite loudly proclaiming your lack of support for him in previous threads, and here we are again, so I'm probably going to call it a day rather then get pulled down into your rabbit hole of self denial.
     
  10. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Commodore Commodore

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    From what a group of lawyers has told me of protected classes... YES they said in the light of the law Everybody is under a protected class now a days. Told me this maybe a year ago.
     
  11. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Commodore Commodore

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    How am I in a lather? Hmm.
    Im just giving extreme examples of denying service. Not comparing Nazis to LGBTQIA+ people. That's putting words into my mouth, so please stop.
    I personally don't care , if I had a bakery and you had money, I'll bake it as long as its not illegal or the person is acting a fool in the store.

    Oh CNN isn't that credible a news source to me. They lie just like all the news services including fox. Actually viewed a number of videos with antifa chanting anti cop stuff.
     
  12. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Yeah... OK...

    So what would be the protected class in the hypothetical Neo-Nazi or Antifa cake lawsuit?
     
  13. cultcross

    cultcross You're all posters in some kind of neutral zone? Moderator

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    The discrimination must be due to the protected characteristic, not merely that they have one.
     
  14. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Commodore Commodore

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    Anybody can sue for anything. And as long as whatever isn't "illegal" in light of the law, then they have a right to service.
    Honestly not a lawyer so no idea how it would work, just saying honestly that's what a group of lawyers said when somebody asked about protected classes at a meetting.
     
  15. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored This is the Way Moderator

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  16. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Then I refer you to the reply by cultcross above.
     
  17. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Commodore Commodore

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    I read it, again not a lawyer, no idea how it works, so I yield to anybody with more expertise. Just relaying what a group of professional lawyers said when a protected class question came up.

    To me that was just a general thing of everybody is protected in the light of the law. But no idea how the legal mechanics would work.
     
  18. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    ^To sue successfully, someone would have to prove in court that the business discriminated against them because of their protected class status. If the claim was that the business discriminated by refusing service on the basis that someone was a Neo-Nazi, that wouldn't cut it, because being a Neo-Nazi is not protected.
     
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  19. dinzy

    dinzy Commander Red Shirt

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    Agreed. Most Trump supporters are racist because they support a racist and support racist policies. FFS one of Trump's last acts was OKing a racist view of America to be used to brainwash future racists in racist school.

    They just ignore inconvenient truths that might not really resonate with them, but by ignoring them, they made a choice that people who are hurt by them are of no value.
     
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  20. Borgminister

    Borgminister Admiral Moderator

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    So stone women in a pit if they commit adultery because the old testament says so? Not sure Jesus would agree, but that's just me.
     
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