Lucifer - Season 1
- Thread starter JD
- Start date
Tom Ellis is the best thing about this show, but the actual police procedural aspect is lacking (though not nearly as bad as Second Chance's attempt at cop stuff). The plot with his wings, in addition to it taking more than one episode to get back, is where this show has the potential to develop and get interesting.
We work with what they give us. I am hoping for something like an Homage to THE PREACHER or something similar.
The idea of belief made manifest--that Lucifer and God (read- DEMIURGE) were created by us and our belief systems--allows for the character to be an anti-hero. I've wanted a horror movie with Pinhead and Freddy as Virgil and Dante-- overpowered by soldiers who have more power due to higher death tolls--the idea to topple the demiurge--the Old Testiment deity placed into our heads by the Statue of Zeus at Olympia from Phidias.
The idea of a creature that amounts to Fred Phelps given the power of Q is what would be most frightening.
We could see something along this line.
That comment got me wondering: is a fallen angel the same thing as a demon? I did some skimming of articles on Wikipedia, and apparently the Christian demonological view is that, yes, demons are evil angels. Although there's a whole bunch of different types of demon -- some are believed to be the offspring of humans and the Nephilim/giants that lived before the Flood, others are the gods of other religions (which is kind of rude), etc.
Oh, and apparently the apocryphal Book of Enoch says that angels mating with humans is a cursed action and will bring the wrath of God down on the Earth. Presumably that's not a part of the show's theology, given how much mating with humans Lucifer does on a regular basis.
From what was said during the last episodes, it seemed to be leaning towards a concept that Lucifer isn't totally evil, he's just performing a necessary job given to him by God. A job which is punishing those deserving punishment. In the Bible he rebelled against God, which is why he got his new job and his wings clipped , I guess. I'm not sure that the other angel is doing what God wants but what he thinks is right. It seems that Lucifer was planning to return to heaven (with his wings) some day but now he thinks he can't. I think angels are angels, fallen or not, and demons were created to serve Lucifer and maybe the other fallens. My opinion anyway. I like the way the Dresden Files deals with these types of characters.
Good show so far.
Good show so far.
Yeah. This show has made me think a bit -- why do we assume the Devil is evil when he's the one responsible for punishing evil? Well, of course, there is Biblical tradition and Judeo-Christian legend depicting Satan/the Devil/etc. as an inciter of evil in humans, but that does seem to clash with the tradition that he's the being in charge of punishing evildoers in Hell. You'd think that the lord of all evil would reward evildoers, not punish them. So the general perception of the Devil's role as master of Hell seems to have a built-in contradiction. The show's take is interesting, that Lucifer resents getting blamed for the evil acts that he's actually responsible for punishing.
In Drive Angry they go for a similar approach (the Devil is just a guardian).
In this scene, the Accountant (an envoy from hell with a mission to recapture a fugitive soul - Nicolas Cage) says these words, after he ran into a devil-worshipper cult that want to sacrifice a baby to Satan.
Young Ms. Piper, let you in on a little secret.
The Dark Lord, Satan, Beelzebub, Lucifer, is simply the warden of a very large prison.
Quiet man, actually. Thoughtful and he's well-read.
I happen to know, the idea of sacrificing children in his honor annoys him greatly.
One can argue as many things about the Devil as you can about God. Whatever you argue, one character is an awful lot more interesting than the other. I like the Sandman Slim story that he's a caretaker, a figurehead, and when the current one gets fed up with it, he takes off calls himself Samael again. The only catch is he needs to put another figurehead in place first. I wouldn't be surprised if Lucifer might do something like this.
Lucifer is based far more on Milton than the Bible. Milton's Lucifer is a composite of characters that Biblical scholars consider to be different demons, devils, and fallen angels. Milton was so effective at his literary creation -- it's said that Milton was "of the Devil's party" -- that his non-Biblical view has, in some ways, superceded the actual mythology on which it's based. Many of the beliefs about Lucifer/Satan/the Devil in Christian mythology have little, if any, Biblical support. I'd go so far as to suggest that many of them -- like the Serpent in the Garden of Eden as a personification of Lucifer -- are tantamount to literary retcons.
As for the Rebellion, if you go by the Bible, that will happen at the end of time, per Revelation. The rebellion at the beginning of time is non-Biblical; that's another of Milton's ideas, and it's the idea that Lucifer adopts.
Lucifer, of course, is based on Neil Gaiman's character and ideas, and he takes the Miltonian view, sort of. In The Sandman Gaiman splits the initial leadership of Hell among several different characters, including Lucifer Morningstar and Beezelbub. (I forget the name of the third off-hand.) Hell is, for Lucifer, essentially a cosmic "time out"; it's as far away from God as it's possible to get, and he eventually realizes he doesn't need to stay there, so he walks away. In Gaiman's unconnected short story "Murder Mysteries," God actually engineers Lucifer's rebellion -- he deliberately shatters the love that Lucifer, the angel who loves him most and best, has for God -- because it's part of God's plan. In Mike Carey's Lucifer series, Lucifer rebelled because God's predestination deprived Creation of free will.
Viewed in this light, you can't really say that Lucifer is "evil." He just wants to be free, a child who chafed against his father's demands and rebelled. The Lucifer of Milton and Gaiman is a tragic hero, and God is the villain.
Yeah... One of the Wikipedia articles I looked at (great scholarship, yeah, I know...) said that the reference in Isaiah to the Morning Star (the name translated in Latin as Lucifer, "Light-Bringer") was probably an allegorical/satirical reference to the king of Babylon and his symbolic status as the son of Ishtar (Venus, the morning star). And sometime later, once people had forgotten the history and politics that would've put the reference in context, they started to interpret it as a reference to the story of Satan being cast from Heaven.
My wife and I love this show- it has the potential to go so many different ways. Lucifer and Chloe have interesting chemistry together and each are very intrigued with the other (for different reasons).
I wonder why Lucifer removed his wings?- the fact they are on Earth implies it was done here instead of millions of years ago. Amenadiel still has his and seems to have no problem concealing them amongst mortals.
This show is making a gradual evolution of a big story arc- it started off as a quirky procedural cop show but now is more focused on Lucifer beginning to care about people and justice, a natural progression of his punish the guilty role. In the first episode Amenadiel mentions that Lucifer being absent is causing tremendous problems. IIRC Chloe said that his history started three or five years ago so that is probably when his 'vacation' started. I think the problems with his absence is where the story will really get interesting.
I wonder why Lucifer removed his wings?- the fact they are on Earth implies it was done here instead of millions of years ago. Amenadiel still has his and seems to have no problem concealing them amongst mortals.
This show is making a gradual evolution of a big story arc- it started off as a quirky procedural cop show but now is more focused on Lucifer beginning to care about people and justice, a natural progression of his punish the guilty role. In the first episode Amenadiel mentions that Lucifer being absent is causing tremendous problems. IIRC Chloe said that his history started three or five years ago so that is probably when his 'vacation' started. I think the problems with his absence is where the story will really get interesting.
Another psychiatrist who moved into the office next door. Since they're both professionals, she can tell him about her patient without breaching confidentiality, or at least that's what the show asserts. (Of course, since he's not really a psychiatrist, that kind of fraud and invasion of privacy is a pretty rotten thing for an angel to do.)
Angels are warriors, be it a flaming sword or a fib they will get the job done.
In the Piers Anthony book 'On a Pale Horse' death goes on strike and refuses process the dead. This creates a LOT of problems since it is stopping what is normally on ongoing system that he plays a critical part of.
Now for about 5 years Lucifer has not 'been at his desk'. People are dying still, the evil people deserving of punishment are still arriving down there and that waiting room must really be getting crowded by now.
I like it that the show is shifting the emphasis more toward Lucifer's story arc and mythology and away from the murder-of-the-week stuff. This one didn't even have a case of the week -- sure, Chloe was investigating a murder, but it's a case she's been pursuing for months and that's part of her ongoing arc rather than a one-and-done episodic case. This is the direction I was hoping the show would go. I said before, my theory is that shows that want to do novel or unusual things need to start out disguising themselves as conventional procedurals to appease the network suits, and that once you get past the first half-dozen episodes or so, they start to break out of the formula and ease into becoming the shows they really intended to be all along. This is episode 7, so it's right on schedule. We'll see if it really continues to commit, though.
What really intrigues me is Amenadiel's comment about how he has to patrol the gates of Hell to keep damned souls from escaping to Earth. While I have to wonder why Hell doesn't have a better security system, this has got to be a setup for something. I'm betting that by the end of the season, there will be just such a breakout. Maybe the format will eventually shift from "supernatural being helps mortal detective solve ordinary homicides" to "mortal detective helps supernatural being hunt down demonic killers." Or some hybrid of the two. I wouldn't be surprised if Chloe's resistance to Lucifer's mojo were due to some innate supernatural quality of her own that would aid her in battling demonic threats. Maybe she'd be just as immune to their influence. (For what it's worth, "Chloe" is an epithet of the goddess Demeter. May be relevant, may be coincidence.)
By the way, I'm proud of myself... for missing something. When Lucifer introduced Amenadiel as his brother and Chloe looked surprised, it took me a few moments to realize that the reason for her surprise was because they have different racial appearances. I guess I've gotten so used to the idea of biracial families that I take it for granted. (E.g. Barry Allen being Joe West's adopted son on The Flash.) I was wondering if Amenadiel was invisible to Chloe and she thought Lucifer was introducing his imaginary friend. But no, it was Manny the angel on Constantine who was invisible to mortals.
What really intrigues me is Amenadiel's comment about how he has to patrol the gates of Hell to keep damned souls from escaping to Earth. While I have to wonder why Hell doesn't have a better security system, this has got to be a setup for something. I'm betting that by the end of the season, there will be just such a breakout. Maybe the format will eventually shift from "supernatural being helps mortal detective solve ordinary homicides" to "mortal detective helps supernatural being hunt down demonic killers." Or some hybrid of the two. I wouldn't be surprised if Chloe's resistance to Lucifer's mojo were due to some innate supernatural quality of her own that would aid her in battling demonic threats. Maybe she'd be just as immune to their influence. (For what it's worth, "Chloe" is an epithet of the goddess Demeter. May be relevant, may be coincidence.)
By the way, I'm proud of myself... for missing something. When Lucifer introduced Amenadiel as his brother and Chloe looked surprised, it took me a few moments to realize that the reason for her surprise was because they have different racial appearances. I guess I've gotten so used to the idea of biracial families that I take it for granted. (E.g. Barry Allen being Joe West's adopted son on The Flash.) I was wondering if Amenadiel was invisible to Chloe and she thought Lucifer was introducing his imaginary friend. But no, it was Manny the angel on Constantine who was invisible to mortals.
I get the feeling that Amenadiel's not tryng to get Lucifer back to work at God's urging. Amenadiel realizes that God will need to appoint another warden of Hell if Luci doesn't go back, and he fears it's going to be him. And he doesn't want the job any more than Lucifer does.
Which is exactly why I think it's likely that some of those "damned souls" are going to escape. Amenadiel's supposed to be guarding the gates, but he's constantly up here playing mind games with Lucy. So who the hell is watching Hell?
I had the same thought when he said that.
I think this was my favorite episode of the series so far.
The big twist with Amenadiel being the one who stole the wings was a big surprise for me. It also strikes me as a set up for some more shenanigans in the future.
I got the impression from this one that it was the act of removing his wings that made him mortal. Now I have to wonder if actually destroying them like that will have any more of an effect on him.
Chloe's case seems like it will be pretty interesting.
I think this was my favorite episode of the series so far.
The big twist with Amenadiel being the one who stole the wings was a big surprise for me. It also strikes me as a set up for some more shenanigans in the future.
I got the impression from this one that it was the act of removing his wings that made him mortal. Now I have to wonder if actually destroying them like that will have any more of an effect on him.
Chloe's case seems like it will be pretty interesting.
Similar threads
