Lt.Kyle

[Noname Given]

There was a time when recasting meant actually getting actors who resembled the character in question and making some attempt to resemble them in hair, complexion, etc...

^^^
And that's what they've done here with their major characters. Their 'day player' extras not so much.

 

[Dar70]

Again, T'Pau changed appearances twice between 1967 and 2005. She even became an Asian woman at one point. Kyle might not even be the same person as in TOS but even if he were we've been to this dance before.

T'pau was vulcan i dont remember her being Asian. She was old as dirt in TOS and very young in Enterprise....of course she would not look the same.

 

[Dar70]

I do find it a bit odd because I don't like the Asian Kyle situation as an Asian myself and would've preferred a character with a different name (to clarify this isn't TOS Kyle) or making the character into Sulu. Is this something Asians are pushing for or is it something that's being done for us as far as representation? Because chucking the Asian guy to just being in the transporter and naming him a minor TOS character (instead of like I said the major TOS character Sulu) is not my idea of Asian male representation unless Kyle is going to get massive more screen time in the future.

I remember, being disabled myself with hearing problems, and getting accused of being an ableist on this very forum because I suggested that Detmer have her implant injuries completely cured upon her arrival into the future. Between this and Kyle, I'm becoming concerned that the push for diversity in our media is being done for us minorities and in our name without, you know, actually consulting minority members and asking us if this is how we want to be represented. I'm not concerned about the push for diversity but how it's seemingly thoughtlessly done to check off some boxes and seemingly without actually engaging minority members and asking them what they want to see.

Nicely said.

 

[Yistaan]

T'pay was vulcan i dont remember her being Asian. She was old as dirt in TOS and very young in Enterprise....of course she would not look the same.

She was Asian in a holographic appearance, but again that was a holographic appearance cameo (not a recurring part) so there was leeway in universe possibly.

 

[fireproof78]

No leeway given.

 

[Nerys Myk]

There was a time when recasting meant actually getting actors who resembled the character in question and making some attempt to resemble them in hair, complexion, etc.

When was that? Does Roger Moore look any thing like Connery or Lazenby? Could Robin Curtis be mistaken for Kirsty Ally? Does Roger Davis look like Pete Duel? Are Michael Keaton, Val Kilmer and George Clooney triplets?

 

[Yistaan]

When was that? Does Roger Moore look any thing like Connery or Lazenby? Could Robin Curtis be mistaken for Kirsty Ally? Does Roger Davis look like Pete Duel? Are Michael Keaton, Val Kilmer and George Clooney triplets?

Mon Mothma, the 3 Captain Antilles, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Owen Lars (to the point that Joel Edgerton actually looks more like young Owen than Phil Brown). Revenge of the Sith even put makeup on Wayne Pygram to make him resemble Peter Cushing as Tarkin in Revenge of the Sith.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Mon Mothma, the 3 Captain Antilles, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Owen Lars (to the point that Joel Edgerton actually looks more like young Owen than Phil Brown). Revenge of the Sith even put makeup on Wayne Pygram to make him resemble Peter Cushing as Tarkin in Revenge of the Sith.

So not always or actually, then? Basically Star Wars does it and other productions do not.
Even Star Wars kind of "fumbled" in Solo.

 

[Mudd]

Mon Mothma, the 3 Captain Antilles, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Owen Lars (to the point that Joel Edgerton actually looks more like young Owen than Phil Brown). Revenge of the Sith even put makeup on Wayne Pygram to make him resemble Peter Cushing as Tarkin in Revenge of the Sith.

So what?

Counter-examples don't make your point, when your argument is that this sort of thing just can't be done. What you're "proving" is that the creators have a free choice to go one direction or the other.

 

[Yistaan]

So not always or actually, then? Basically Star Wars does it and other productions do not.

I think Marvel's War Machines at least tried to get a passing resemblance. You're right franchises don't all do that but Star Wars is Star Trek's main competition historically. People don't think of Batman or James Bond as the alternative if they don't like the recastings of Trek. They think of Star Wars.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I think Marvel's War Machines at least tried to get a passing resemblance. You're right franchises don't all do that but Star Wars is Star Trek's main competition historically. People don't think of Batman or James Bond as the alternative if they don't like the recastings of Trek. They think of Star Wars.

Seriously? The two actors look nothing alike.
I sure don't. SW recasts are barely a blip to me. Not a versus guy, I guess.

 

[fireproof78]

When was that? Does Roger Moore look any thing like Connery or Lazenby? Could Robin Curtis be mistaken for Kirsty Ally? Does Roger Davis look like Pete Duel? Are Michael Keaton, Val Kilmer and George Clooney triplets?

T'Pau through the years.

Identical.

Seriously? The two actors look nothing alike.
I sure don't. SW recasts are barely a blip to me. Not a versus guy, I guess.

Same. People treat it like a competition when none exist for me. Star Wars tries one way while Trek is constantly updating.

Neither is wrong.

 

[cooleddie74]

T'pau was vulcan i dont remember her being Asian. She was old as dirt in TOS and very young in Enterprise....of course she would not look the same.

You need to watch "Darkling(VOY)."

 

[cooleddie74]

She was Asian in a holographic appearance, but again that was a holographic appearance cameo (not a recurring part) so there was leeway in universe possibly.

Nope. It's still an in-universe canon appearance.

 

[Yistaan]

Nope. It's still an in-universe canon appearance.

Noooooooo!!!!!!!

(crushes surroundings with the Force)

 

[fireproof78]

Nope. It's still an in-universe canon appearance.

#notmytpau

 

[cooleddie74]

I grieve vit thee.

 

[Yistaan]

I grieve vit thee.

Klingon Ambassador: And you call us barbarians? Why even the infamous James Kirk was almost killed in some bizarre primitive Vulcan deathmatch over who gets to date Spock's fiancee! Presided over by Vulcan elder T'Pau herself! This is the best the Federation has to offer? You demonize the Klingons while whitewashing your own skeletons!

McCoy: And I always end up being that skeleton, that's why I ended up being called Bones.

Gorn captain: You Klingons are complaining? I'm filing a complaint over the latest post that La'an Noonien Singh, an illegal augment, made about us Gorn on subspace chatter.

 

[Sci]

If a writer doesn't feel an obligation to respect what an author has written down then that writer should keep his hands off said material and write his own story.

Nah. It's fine to change an existing property in adaptation if the older version had things worthy of respect alongside things that were incredibly gross. It's fine to do a version of Sherlock Holmes where Sherlock is still a genius but isn't a raging misogynist. It's fine to do a version of Flash Gordon where he saves the universe from evil but where evil isn't a racist caricature of Asian people like the Ming the Merciless. And it's fine to do a version of James Bond where he isn't white or where he doesn't engage in violence against women.

Nah. The series has evolved just fine for the last 60 years even with the cold war ending a long time ago. No other movie franchise can say that so they have not been "forgotten."

It has evolved precisely because the owners of the property have recognized when the potential for negative reaction to Fleming's social agenda necessitated changing the property. There is a reason M became a woman in 1995. James Bond has survived precisely because it has been willing to throw out the racist, misogynistic, and colonialist social agenda Ian Fleming initially sought to advance with his books.

If you have to ask that question then you never read the novels and are completely out of your element on this subject, Fleming was VERY specific on who James Bond was and him being straight was very much a part of his character.

Sure, but it is a necessary part of his character? Is he fundamentally no longer James Bond if he's black or bisexual, for instance? If so, I must ask -- why? What function does his whiteness or his heterosexuality serve in the story?

Unless the James Bond story is a story designed to celebrate the power of white people or the power of straight men, I just don't see why his being white or his being straight is necessary.

You got your non white heroic secret agent with the same code name and a homosexual

You do realize that the phrase "a homosexual" is at best outdated and is at worse kind of offensive these days, right? The preferred terms are "LGBT," "LGBTQ," "LGBTQIA+," or "queer."

who does very important work for James Bond. If that's not good enough for you then too bad. Write your own gay character super agent. Stop trying to ruin an established franchise.

"Ruin?" To "ruin" implies that there's something bad about being non-white or queer.

 

[fireproof78]

"Ruin?" To "ruin" implies that there's something bad about being non-white or queer.

And also implies that somehow a new interpretation of an existing franchise can be "ruin" the franchise by merely existing?

Now, I'm a bit of a word nerd so words like "ruin" carry a lot of weight with me. But, for the sake of clarity here is the definition of ruin:
: to damage irreparably
b: BANKRUPT, IMPOVERISHruined by stock speculation
2: to subject to frustration, failure, or disasterwill ruin your chances of promotion
3: to reduce to ruins : DEVASTATE
intransitive verb

: to become ruined
Source.

Now, I don't wish to sound insensitive to those who have strong emotional ties to franchises like Bond, or Trek or whatnot, but what exactly is ruined here? Genuine question.