Spoilers Lower Decks General Discussion Thread

[Kpnuts]

"Brain, brain what is brain?"

Yep, someone wrote this

...52 years ago.

It's not unreasonable to expect better these days.

(and for the record, I'm not talking about Lower Decks, it's more an argument against the 'what about when Trek did this' argument, as if that absolves criticism about a current show.

 

[Lord Garth]

...52 years ago.

It's not unreasonable to expect better these days.

(and for the record, I'm not talking about Lower Decks, it's more an argument against the 'what about when Trek did this' argument, as if that absolves criticism about a current show.

No one should use "Spock's Brain" to absolve anything. People thought "Spock's Brain" was ridiculous (in a bad way) in 1968 too. You're selling the past short.

In fact, 1968 also gave us 2001: A Space Odyssey and the original Planet of the Apes. I'd put those up against any modern movie any day. You wouldn't know this because you might've gotten the wrong general impression of me from how much much I like Kurtzman Trek, and I don't exactly spend much time talking about things I don't like or am not interested in, but I've largely skipped out on going to the movies for the most part since 2014. Most mainstream films these days have no appeal to me. TV is where it's at. Film is an area where I put the '60s over Today. By a long stretch.

 

[Yistaan]

...52 years ago.

It's not unreasonable to expect better these days.

(and for the record, I'm not talking about Lower Decks, it's more an argument against the 'what about when Trek did this' argument, as if that absolves criticism about a current show.

It's phrased best in general as, "Past mistakes don't justify current ones"

 

[fireproof78]

It's phrased best in general as, "Past mistakes don't justify current ones"

Here's the thing for me-no, past mistakes don't absolve current ones. But, past Trek mistakes are given a pass and completely glossed over while new Trek gets condemned as "Not real Trek" or other sorts categorical declarations. And that, to me, is a double standard.

In general, I don't expect shows to get better in the 2020s vs. 1960 or whatever. Ever single producer has their own sensibilities, limits and talents. Most of the shows I watch now are older because I prefer that to many on right now. I don't have much in the way of expectations beyond them putting forward a good story and interesting characters. If they do something silly in Trek then I'm going to bat an eye at it.

 

[BillJ]

But, past Trek mistakes are given a pass and completely glossed over while new Trek gets condemned as "Not real Trek" or other sorts categorical declarations. And that, to me, is a double standard

I don’t know that they’re given a pass, just that we’ve already beaten those mistakes to death.

 

[Kpnuts]

But, past Trek mistakes are given a pass and completely glossed over

Past Trek mistakes were absolutely not glossed over and given a pass. As any discussion board at the time of airing will have told you.

And yes, you should expect shows to improve in 50-60 years, that's how humanity works, by bettering itself as time goes on.

 

[Yistaan]

that's how humanity works, by bettering itself as time goes on.

That's how humanity should work, whether that's how it actually works is still to be determined.

 

[fireproof78]

I don’t know that they’re given a pass, just that we’ve already beaten those mistakes to death.

I don't feel like that is the case but you may be right...

Past Trek mistakes were absolutely not glossed over and given a pass. As any discussion board at the time of airing will have told you.

And yes, you should expect shows to improve in 50-60 years, that's how humanity works, by bettering itself as time goes on.

That's not how humanity works, despite our increase in knowledge I don't see "better" at times. Certainly not in TV and film production. That's always a mixed bag.

And no where are those mistakes treated "this isn't real Trek!" that gets bandied about so easily with new Trek. It's ridiculous.

 

[BillJ]

I don't feel like that is the case but you may be right...

I’ve been a fan for 45 years and the security on Kirk’s Enterprise still pisses me off.

 

[fireproof78]

I’ve been a fan for 45 years and the security on Kirk’s Enterprise still pisses me off.

What Security lol

 

[Nerys Myk]

And yes, you should expect shows to improve in 50-60 years, that's how humanity works, by bettering itself as time goes on.

It's a TV show. It's here to entertain us and some times make bad creative choices.

 

[Trekker4747]

"It's a TV show"

"It's a TV show"

"It's a TV show"

Is that a macro you have in your browser?

I mean just because it's a TV show doesn't mean it can't be serious and can't be taken seriously, just because it's a TV show doens't mean it should be dismissed and waved away and it's just allowed to do whatever it wants without logic and reason.

 

[Nerys Myk]

"It's a TV show"

"It's a TV show"

"It's a TV show"

Is that a macro you have in your browser?

I mean just because it's a TV show doesn't mean it can't be serious and can't be taken seriously, just because it's a TV show doens't mean it should be dismissed and waved away and it's just allowed to do whatever it wants without logic and reason.

There's serious and there's OTT OMG! It's the end of the world serious. Perspective, it's not just for art.

 

[Trekker4747]

There's serious and there's OTT OMG! It's the end of the world serious. Perspective, it's not just for art.

And every time some makes any kind of criticism you think they're doing the latter.

I mean, WOW! So seriously, someone said that TV shows should improve over the course of decades!

 

[Lord Garth]

I try to be careful when it comes to doling out criticism. My father is a fault-finder. With everything. And I can't stand it. So that's why I'm not. But also, if I'm critical of everything all the time, then when I really do mean it, it's going to fall on deaf ears. It would be like, "Oh, that's Garth off on his rocker again!" It would be like the boy who cried "Wolf!" No. If I'm critical of something, I want it to stand out. I want it to carry more weight so it'll have more bite. "He's not normally openly criticizing this! What was wrong with it?" If you've painted yourself as someone who's going to hate it no matter what, people will start to tune it out as white noise.

 

[BillJ]

So seriously, someone said that TV shows should improve over the course of decades!

I see Lower Decks as an improvement over other CBS fare. Other don’t. Life goes on...

 

[Trekker4747]

If you've painted yourself as someone who's going to hate it no matter what, people will start to tune it out as white noise.

I'd say the same for those who're going to like and love something no matter what.

As I've said elsewhere, I don't "hate" LD, I've probably found more things to be critical on it about than praise worthy but it's been one episode where both a LOT happened and nothing happened at the same time. I've got little to praise it about, I land on "Meh," with it.

But it seems like many people just think it was pretty much the best thing ever and you cannot criticize any aspect of it whatsoever.

I see Lower Decks as an improvement over other CBS fare. Other don’t. Life goes on...

Well, that's a pretty short scale.

 

[Kpnuts]

It's a TV show. It's here to entertain us and some times make bad creative choices.

I know it's a TV show.

I was replying to "I don't expect shows to get better in the 2020s vs. 1960"

"Context!!"

 

[BillJ]

Well, that's a pretty short scale.

Honestly, it is tough to compare to shows that ended anywhere from fifteen to fifty years ago by different creative teams, with different tech and different objectives. The world is constantly changing.

Which is why I treat these shows as their own things separate from what came before.

 

[Nerys Myk]

And every time some makes any kind of criticism you think they're doing the latter.

I mean, WOW! So seriously, someone said that TV shows should improve over the course of decades!

Nah, mostly it's one or two who go OTT over this stuff and then go OTT over being called out on going OTT.
Yes they should improve. But really equating a TV show getting "better" plots to the improvement of society/humanity is absurd.