Lost Series Finale: "The End"

[Mr Awe]

Looks like on-island Desmond didn't know that the alternate timeline wasn't an alternate timeline at all.

The whole season was a big misdirect to make us think that the sideways flashes were how the characters lives would have unfolded if the island sank in 1977.

I thought about both those points during the show. Desmond sure was surprised when he didn't hop over to the "alternate timeline"! Of course, he would've had to die to get to the afterlife and it wasn't his time. But, he didn't know that.

I don't understand why they showed us that the island sunk? It didn't sink. And, someone speculated that it was in the future, but I don't believe that. The way it was shown was that it was submerged in the present. A huge misdirect, and they bent the truth to do it. I feel a bit cheated by that. Or, the writers weren't sure where they were heading when they did that.

The whole afterlife story was basically separate from the island story. Anything could've have happened, the island details didn't matter, and they would've all eventually died and met up there. Kate could've died instead of leaving the island, no difference. Same with any of the characters. A bit unsatisfying.

So, it's easiest to think of that as a separate story entirely. Somehow that's not very satisfying to me. The island resolution was a bit weak and could've used some fleshing out. The afterlife story did provide a boat load of awesome character moments and the message was spot on. Mixed feelings for sure.

Mr Awe

 

[Mr Awe]

I don't have any desire to "re-watch" LOST. So much of the show just feels.... pointless. I can't imagine getting invested in battling The Others or agonizing over the button or any of that stuff now, knowing that it never (ever) makes any sort of logical sense.

That's exactly how I feel. I was looking forward to rewatching it over the summer at the start of the season but seeing that it means nothing I don't feel like it now. I expected to go back armed with all this new information and really bring new light and see this Massive Coherent Narrative but now that it didn't add up to much so why should I give a shit if the writers didn't. Now I'll revisit it but it will be to only focus on character scenes.

Ditto for me. I enjoyed the ride the first time around but no desire to rewatch it. I thought so much more would make sense rewatching it. No, I just realize I'd spend a a whole lot of time thinking to myself what never got explained, what was never followed up on, what just wasn't important, etc. Like Walt and his special powers. Or the sickness. Or the baby issue. Miles and the changing photos. Just gobs of stuff that intrigued me at the time but ultimately meaningliness.

And, I didn't need an answer for everything but I think the finale showed me just how much was not answered. How much stuff was just dropped on the way.

Mr Awe

 

[Mr Awe]

I think we can now establish that when Juliet detonated Jughead at the end of "The Incident", two things happened.

1) The bomb detonated, and combined with another time flash, the released energy sank the island in 1977. This theory is supported by the fact that in the flash-sideways universe, the island, complete with Dharma barracks, Tawaret statue, and Dharma shark are all under the sea as Oceanic 815 flies by (as seen in "LA X."

The island did NOT sink. The main island resoluton was that Jack saved the island. He sacrificed himself to save the island. Hurley then protected the island with Ben's help.

2) The time flash also, coincidentally transports Juliet, Jack, Sawyer, Sayid, Kate, Hurley, Jin, Rose, Bernard, and Vincent back to 2007.

This is true.

The flash-sideways are the result of the nuke going off and sinking the island.

I don't believe this is true. The flash sideways are independent of the the island storyline. It's simply a meeting place until they're ready to move on. The nuke didn't create them. According to Christian, the characters created that place to meet up.

Either way, the dawning realization of the characters in the flash-sideways segments all season has been united in one singular purpose -- to bring Jack to his end in the prime universe and to allow him to let go of life and move on to a happier existence.

They didn't need to bring his end, death is assured for everyone. According to Christian, some lived for a lot longer after Jack died. There is no rush. Their goal was to meet and then move on together because they were so important to each other.

Mr Awe

 

[LitmusDragon]

@ LitmusDragon

I'm confused. What do you mean by purgatory?

I suppose you mean the flash sideways? I took it to be a Nexxus-style staging area for the afterlife.

There was no purgatory angle.

Purgatory = [snip]

Well I'm no theologian, but my understanding of purgatory is that it's supposed to be a place where souls go when they're dead but not quite ready to move on to heaven yet. I do believe that the afterlife we saw on screen does fit the general pop-culture definition of what most people think that purgatory would be like.

I mean what else would you call it ... pre-heaven? The first level of heaven?

At any rate, they're dead and that's the part I don't like. It kind of validates the early point of view that they're dead and that nothing on screen really matters.

I might also add that I have a general bias against organized religion, so maybe this is where my dissatisfaction is originating from. The show in general has been fairly even handed when it comes to science versus religion. Then, it ends in a church.

 

[RobertScorpio]

^^ Kind of like some of the religions we have now on this planet. No matter what you do, kill other people, it doesn't matter...you're in as long as you believe in (fill in the blank)..

I wonder how many virgins they got? How many of them got wings? How many of them became one with a butterfly? ect ect ect.

Ben represents ALL OF us trying to decide, and not letting go until we do.

Rob

 

[label]

Well I'm no theologian, but my understanding of purgatory is that it's supposed to be a place where souls go when they're dead but not quite ready to move on to heaven yet.

Purgatory, a catholic belief, is meant to convey that you go to a pre-heaven staging area where you are punished and tormented for your sins so that you become purified enough to be in the presence of God. That's not at all what I got from the sideways afterlife. It was more inline with some eastern religions where one contemplates/comes to terms with their life and then moves on.

I do believe that the afterlife we saw on screen does fit the general pop-culture definition of what most people think that purgatory would be like.

You're probably correct, though this is more an indication that most people really don't know what most religious beliefs actually entail.

I mean what else would you call it ... pre-heaven? The first level of heaven?

Dunno.....that's a good question. I don't get the sense that they were going to end up in "heaven" in any traditional sense of the word. I don't know that there's any reason to believe there's a God of any sort involved in the storyline at all. I think it's more of "once you die, there are different states of existence that one will move through" type of thing. Not particularly religious, though certainly very spiritual.

At any rate, they're dead and that's the part I don't like. It kind of validates the early point of view that they're dead and that nothing on screen really matters.

Everything up to the Flash-Sideways in Season 6 really happened, it all really mattered and in fact, the whole point of the Flash Sideways was to give you a sense of how all the characters end up after their story has been told.

I might also add that I have a general bias against organized religion, so maybe this is where my dissatisfaction is originating from. The show in general has been fairly even handed when it comes to science versus religion. Then, it ends in a church.

To be fair, I didn't get a sense that they were being "religious" as much as I thought they definitely included many spiritual themes.

The distinction for me is "religion" is man kinds very flawed attempt(s) to try and figure out what they believe about our Creator, what our purpose is and how we should live. Bunch of teachings, stories and rules. Spirituality are more universal type experiences that isn't bound by any one set of rules or perspective on the Creator.

 

[davejames]

Man, a day later and I just can't shake the image of them in that church. The realization that we were watching these characters long after they had all died in one way or another is just... profoundly sad to me.

I know a lot of people probably think that makes all the flash-sideways this season seem meaningless, but personally I think it would be rewatching them even more poignant and meaningful-- to realize that, even after death, we could continue to follow these characters and see them go on one last "adventure" together in the afterlife.

 

[LitmusDragon]

Everything up to the Flash-Sideways in Season 6 really happened, it all really mattered and in fact, the whole point of the Flash Sideways was to give you a sense of how all the characters end up after their story has been told.

That's true but this type of ending allows for the viewer to interpret things how he wants to interpret them. This way, the island mythology people get to be right and the people who say it was purgatory all along get to be right. Let's put it this way- if you placed a bet in Vegas that the show would end up in purgatory, I think you got to collect on that bet today.

To be fair, I didn't get a sense that they were being "religious" as much as I thought they definitely included many spiritual themes.

The distinction for me is "religion" is man kinds very flawed attempt(s) to try and figure out what they believe about our Creator, what our purpose is and how we should live. Bunch of teachings, stories and rules. Spirituality are more universal type experiences that isn't bound by any one set of rules or perspective on the Creator.

I think they played both sides (but not equally). I'm sure that people of devout Christian belief were probably pleased by all of the crosses in the last few shots and the fact that it ended in a church. On the other hand the whole "plugging the cork" thing on the island was very pagan. The focus though seemed to be on the church and the meet and greet inside the church, basically a Southern Baptist's interpretation of what the beginning of the afterlife would probably be like. That's where they kind of lost me.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Well I'm no theologian, but my understanding of purgatory is that it's supposed to be a place where souls go when they're dead but not quite ready to move on to heaven yet.

Purgatory, a catholic belief, is meant to convey that you go to a pre-heaven staging area where you are punished and tormented for your sins so that you become purified enough to be in the presence of God. That's not at all what I got from the sideways afterlife. It was more inline with some eastern religions where one contemplates/comes to terms with their life and then moves on.

I do believe that the afterlife we saw on screen does fit the general pop-culture definition of what most people think that purgatory would be like.

You're probably correct, though this is more an indication that most people really don't know what most religious beliefs actually entail.



Dunno.....that's a good question. I don't get the sense that they were going to end up in "heaven" in any traditional sense of the word. I don't know that there's any reason to believe there's a God of any sort involved in the storyline at all. I think it's more of "once you die, there are different states of existence that one will move through" type of thing. Not particularly religious, though certainly very spiritual.

At any rate, they're dead and that's the part I don't like. It kind of validates the early point of view that they're dead and that nothing on screen really matters.

Everything up to the Flash-Sideways in Season 6 really happened, it all really mattered and in fact, the whole point of the Flash Sideways was to give you a sense of how all the characters end up after their story has been told.

I might also add that I have a general bias against organized religion, so maybe this is where my dissatisfaction is originating from. The show in general has been fairly even handed when it comes to science versus religion. Then, it ends in a church.

To be fair, I didn't get a sense that they were being "religious" as much as I thought they definitely included many spiritual themes.

The distinction for me is "religion" is man kinds very flawed attempt(s) to try and figure out what they believe about our Creator, what our purpose is and how we should live. Bunch of teachings, stories and rules. Spirituality are more universal type experiences that isn't bound by any one set of rules or perspective on the Creator.

I like your line of reasoning label. Two great posts from you in this thread!

Rob

 

[Admiral_Young]

My first and probably only post in an episode thread...I wouldn't consider myself a hardcore "Lost" fan but just a fan of the series so I went in without much emotional investment and came out feeling satisfied. I read an interview where Carlton and Case stated that the finale wouldn't please everyone but that it was a definite conclusion.

I thought there were tremendous character moments and I understood that the 2004 flash sideways was an afterlife construct that the survivors created for themselves as a way to find and reunite with each other. They were "Lost" in their previous lives or their constructed lives as with Juliet and Jack's case and needed to find each other to move on to the next phase. Christian explains this to Jack when he encounters him in the church...he also explains to Jack that everyone is there because the place was for those who died before Jack and who died AFTER Jack died and time had no meaning there. It's not purgatory at all but their own version of afterlife. Christian also says when Jack is trying to figure out just exactly what the hell happens that EVERYTHING HE WENT THROUGH in his previous life MATTERED AND WAS REAL. Everything that happened on the Island was REAL. It isn't made invalid by their being in the afterlife reality...they LIVED those lives and shared those experiences and this is their reward.

Indeed one could argue that the flash sideways afterlife reality was originally created when the first death happened...I'm forgetting his name now but Jack sees him in the church the young fellow who was strung up in the first season. He was part of that original flight in the pilot and therefor eligible for entry in their construct.

Also I thought Michael Giaccano's (I probably spelled that wrong) score was beautiful and moving as always in this episode. I can't wait for the Lost Encyclopedia which is supposed to be very indepth and explain things...overall a satisfying conclusion for myself.

 

[Caligula]

Incredible. I'm still trying to process everything I saw. I loved all the character moments in the "flash sideways" scenes. In particular, the Charlie/Claire/Aaron reunion made me cry. Maybe the greatest series finale I've ever personally seen.

 

[startrekwatcher]

I think we can now establish that when Juliet detonated Jughead at the end of "The Incident", two things happened.

1) The bomb detonated, and combined with another time flash, the released energy sank the island in 1977. This theory is supported by the fact that in the flash-sideways universe, the island, complete with Dharma barracks, Tawaret statue, and Dharma shark are all under the sea as Oceanic 815 flies by (as seen in "LA X."

2) The time flash also, coincidentally transports Juliet, Jack, Sawyer, Sayid, Kate, Hurley, Jin, Rose, Bernard, and Vincent back to 2007.

The flash-sideways are the result of the nuke going off and sinking the island, killing Jacob and the Man in Black in 1977, and thus neither of them being able to affect any of the lives of the Oceanic passengers.

Now, whether or not this means that once the island sank the entire world ended is open to debate. It could just be that the world continued on, or it could be that the world did end and that everything from the flash-sideways is the afterlife. Or, it could be that the lives of the Oceanic passengers were better for the lack of interference from Jacob and his quarrel with the Man in Black.

The bomb didn't cause the island to sink and it didn't create an alternate timeline, it only propelled Jack and the gang back to 2007. We saw the island at the bottom of the sea because like everything else, it'll meet its end eventually.

The bomb did nothing. It was Jacob that brought them back to 2007 as his last dying act, Remember in season 5 finale he said they're coming.

Also people are overthinking the afterlife and the island being on the bottom of the ocean in this season's premiere. It was all contrived and misleading--there was no rhyme or reason to it--it was just the writers toying with us. This afterlife was a collective reality created by them and had nothing to do with Jughead..

 

[Top41]

Excellent.

I wasn't sure how I was expecting it to all end, but I liked the way it did. Incredibly emotional, and even though Jack's death was foreshadowed and hinted at all season and especially in this episode, it still was just an incredibly powerful moment when Jack said to Christian, "I'm dead?" He died doing what he felt was his destiny, and doing what he has always done and wanted to do: helping others. That he got to see them have a happy ending (ie taking off on the plane) was really beautiful. As was Vincent finding him and lying down beside him.

And that they all get to be together again in the afterlife? That was really beautiful, too. Altogether, a really wonderful finale.

 

[Agent Richard07]

The bomb did nothing. It was Jacob that brought them back to 2007 as his last dying act, Remember in season 5 finale he said they're coming.

I never got the impression that Jacob brought them back.

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

I enjoyed the finale. Few mixed feelings on certain things pertaining to it though. Thinking they could have gave alittle more clarification on how the Losties collectively built this "afterlife" lobby area to meet up at. Wasn't there a TNG or Voyager where the metaphor for an afterlife was a gas station in the desert? Also if you were to die in this afterlife like Keamy and his henchmen did, what becomes of them? Or did they even exist and not just figments of the Losties' memories of these other people that they may have encountered in there life?

Another thing that kind of bothered me was the usage of the flashbacks as a way of showing they remember as memories would flood back to them, it felt very "clipshow-esque" and after watching the recap show prior to the finale, watching all the old clips again in montage form felt very redundant. Still enjoyed it though.

 

[ITL]

The character stuff was very well done and satisfying, and as the mythology/Island secrets being left hanging came as no surprise, I wasn't overly disappointed by the lack of revelation.

So - very good, but not amazing. It'll do. Me happy.

And I'll leave you with this...

1) Ashes To Ashes did it better.
2)

 

[Admiral_Young]

Okay maybe a second post...yes as I indicated in my first post the afterlife construct was created by the survivors no one else. It was their own way to find each other after they passed away in reality. I agree there were a ton of great character moments in the finale. I cried a number of times...surprised myself since as I indicated I wasn't really emotionally attached...but I did cry when I saw Juliet again (Juliet was one of my favorite characters and I love Elizabeth Mitchell) and her reunion with James was touching. Same with Claire and Charlie's reunion. I also loved Hugo's reaction to seeing Charlie again...and Jack fighting the images of the previous life on the island, his scientific mind still rejecting the facts---awesomeness and in character. Desmond reminded me of Adam the angel of death from "Touched By an Angel" in his role in the construct. Brilliant stuff.

 

[Gryffindorian]

I haven't had a chance to read all the posts, but I would like to add my two cents. I thought it was an excellent, emotional, tearful finale.

Although I'm a latecomer to this series, I must say few shows on television have had such an impact on viewers as LOST. It's become such a cult phenomenon like Star Trek, perhaps even on a greater level, because many people (including those who aren't typical sci-fi fans) have been captivated by it. One viewer wrote, "I never understood Trekkies until I became a Lostie." In my case, I'm proud to say I'm both.

I guess almost all the remaining questions were answered last night. Even the mystery behind the Heart of the Island and what it was became insignificant (at least to me). The show's real focus was on the characters themselves, and we the viewers cared about what was going to happen to each of them.

Having said that, I guess the "Flash-Sideways" reality is not a parallel universe per se but is actually the "afterlife" for all the Oceanics. Christian explains to Jack that it's sort of a reality the islanders collectively created for themselves, and Desmond and Hurley were responsible for making everyone "remember" and bringing them to the church to be reunited with one another. I wonder what's going to happen in that reality now that everyone is aware.

We know that the rest of them survived. Still, it would be interesting to see how life for Hurley would be like on the island, with Ben Linus helping him. What would life be like for Sawyer or Kate? I would like to see them make a movie.

EDIT:

Did anyone watch the Jimmy Kimmel Show? It was too late for me (12:05 AM local time) but was able to see Matthew Fox, Terry O'Quinn, and Michael Emerson. I didn't stay up to see the "alternate endings," though.

 

[sidious618]

Guys, the Island was underwater because the Island was dead just like everyone else.

 

[Brent]

At any rate, they're dead and that's the part I don't like. It kind of validates the early point of view that they're dead and that nothing on screen really matters.

But everyone dies at some point, no one lives forever, not even Jacob or Richard apparently. At some point in the future everyone who was on that plane or not is going to die. Think of this waiting place taking place far in the future, after everyone has died, they all come together in death for one last meeting before moving on.

It doesn't invalidate anything, everything that happened, happened. Everything on the Island happened from S1-S6. The flash sideways was a meeting place in death, and that happened too.