J
Jetfire
Guest
For some reason I got this vibe Christian was Vincent...with all the strangeness of the island. 
Could be looking out for him in dog form. 
Could be looking out for him in dog form. 
Lost Series Finale: "The End"
- Thread starter Agent Richard07
- Start date
S
Stone_Cold_Sisko
Guest
The character "recollection" moments were all strong heartwarming emotional moments.
Jack vs Locke was a cool fight.
All the stuff with the light, and the caves and the island was................. it was what sci-fi and comic writers do when they haven't put in the effort to make a consistent logical story: introduce a bunch of flashy lights and energy beams and flashes and "kewl" genre stuff. It really doesn't make any sense. But whatever it was a cool set piece.
As a finale it was decent, and the flash-sideways reveal was interesting...
I don't have any desire to "re-watch" LOST. So much of the show just feels.... pointless. I can't imagine getting invested in battling The Others or agonizing over the button or any of that stuff now, knowing that it never (ever) makes any sort of logical sense.
You know, nobody forced these writers to continue to pile on mysteries on top of each other. As early as season 1, people were screaming about Twin Peaks and X-Files and such.
I really think they should have:
a) Found some way to SHOW US what would happen if Smokey got off the island
b) SHOW US what happens if the "light goes out". Seriously, so what if the light goes out?
Jack vs Locke was a cool fight.
All the stuff with the light, and the caves and the island was................. it was what sci-fi and comic writers do when they haven't put in the effort to make a consistent logical story: introduce a bunch of flashy lights and energy beams and flashes and "kewl" genre stuff. It really doesn't make any sense. But whatever it was a cool set piece.
As a finale it was decent, and the flash-sideways reveal was interesting...
I don't have any desire to "re-watch" LOST. So much of the show just feels.... pointless. I can't imagine getting invested in battling The Others or agonizing over the button or any of that stuff now, knowing that it never (ever) makes any sort of logical sense.
You know, nobody forced these writers to continue to pile on mysteries on top of each other. As early as season 1, people were screaming about Twin Peaks and X-Files and such.
I really think they should have:
a) Found some way to SHOW US what would happen if Smokey got off the island
b) SHOW US what happens if the "light goes out". Seriously, so what if the light goes out?
As much as I loved the finale tonight, I'll agree with this. The only real consequence of the light going out seemed to be that the Island shakes a whole lot.
Felt like something out of Indiana Jones.
Hmmm... Unsatisfying. Average grade for me.
I see what they were going for, and it worked ... sometimes. And once I saw the multi-religious glass windows in the church, I realized basically what was up. Neat detail.
But I just couldn't shake the feeling that I was watching "happy couples reunion in the after life" at the end...
But unfortunately most of the actual island stuff was disappointing. No new information. No reveal about the nature of the island. By the numbers Locke/Jack confrontation. And who knew that starting a stranded plane was so easy?
I see what they were going for, and it worked ... sometimes. And once I saw the multi-religious glass windows in the church, I realized basically what was up. Neat detail.
But I just couldn't shake the feeling that I was watching "happy couples reunion in the after life" at the end...
But unfortunately most of the actual island stuff was disappointing. No new information. No reveal about the nature of the island. By the numbers Locke/Jack confrontation. And who knew that starting a stranded plane was so easy?
The island was going to sink but Jack stopped it.
That's exactly how I feel. I was looking forward to rewatching it over the summer at the start of the season but seeing that it means nothing I don't feel like it now. I expected to go back armed with all this new information and really bring new light and see this Massive Coherent Narrative but now that it didn't add up to much so why should I give a shit if the writers didn't. Now I'll revisit it but it will be to only focus on character scenes.
And it has burned me on these big epic mythology series--get back to basics I say. Traditional serialized dramas without all the sleight of hand and with a modest ensemble is the way to go.
Awesome finale. I knew a lot of people here would be disappointed that there weren't more hard answers or scifi-type stuff, but personally I think the focus they chose was just right.
Agreed. They've answered all the major questions about the island I had. All those other trivial things people here obsess over I just chalked up to being a manisfestation of the island's weird mystic energy or something.
Agreed. They've answered all the major questions about the island I had. All those other trivial things people here obsess over I just chalked up to being a manisfestation of the island's weird mystic energy or something.
^ A wizard did it! 
I'm surprised they didn't bring back Walt for the end. The ending allows for his growth spurt! I wonder if Libby and Penny had something left on the cutting room floor. Easiest paycheck ever.
I enjoyed the finale, definitely more than the BSG finale.
I'm surprised they didn't bring back Walt for the end. The ending allows for his growth spurt! I wonder if Libby and Penny had something left on the cutting room floor. Easiest paycheck ever.
I enjoyed the finale, definitely more than the BSG finale.
My guess is this: In the sideways, the island was sunken underground, but all those who experienced the sideways were really dead. Perhaps the sinking in the living world would essentially bring the whole world into that state where all were dead.
I'm not sure if that makes sense, but it seems to kind of flow.
What about the off-island weirdness?
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
That was quite possibly the best series finale I've ever seen. They wrapped up pretty much everything I wanted to know about. The rest of the minor threads and bits I can live without / theorize about.
An excellent farewell to the seminal series of our generation.
"No man is an island."
Brilliant.
An excellent farewell to the seminal series of our generation.
"No man is an island."
Brilliant.
I don't understand "means nothing."
A fictional story only means as much as what it means to you. Does it affect you emotionally? Draw you into its characters? Make you think? Consider new concepts? Especially about 'what it means to be human'?
Does/did the show, at the very least, ever entertain you?
A piece of art is just colours on a canvas. A television show is just a bunch of people memorizing stuff someone else wrote and performing it as if it were real, filming this, and putting it together for broadcast. It doesn't mean anything until engages someone.
Lost meant something, to me, when it introduced Desmond and Penny's story in Live Together, Die Alone. It meant even more with The Constant. That's my personal opinion because those stories connected with me for reasons even I'm not sure.
The End was the best finale Lost could have. Take that as you will. I mean it as a good thing, though.
A fictional story only means as much as what it means to you. Does it affect you emotionally? Draw you into its characters? Make you think? Consider new concepts? Especially about 'what it means to be human'?
Does/did the show, at the very least, ever entertain you?
A piece of art is just colours on a canvas. A television show is just a bunch of people memorizing stuff someone else wrote and performing it as if it were real, filming this, and putting it together for broadcast. It doesn't mean anything until engages someone.
Lost meant something, to me, when it introduced Desmond and Penny's story in Live Together, Die Alone. It meant even more with The Constant. That's my personal opinion because those stories connected with me for reasons even I'm not sure.
The End was the best finale Lost could have. Take that as you will. I mean it as a good thing, though.
No, it doesn't. It is made perfectly clear that the "sideways-flashes" were the afterlife. It takes place at some non-linear time after everyone has died. As in everyone in past/future history has died, and it is just the shared experiences that brings this particular group together.
So whether or not the light going out or the island sinking would have no effect on this, since it is a non-linear time place.
Hmmm... Unsatisfying. Average grade for me.
I see what they were going for, and it worked ... sometimes. And once I saw the multi-religious glass windows in the church, I realized basically what was up. Neat detail.
But I just couldn't shake the feeling that I was watching "happy couples reunion in the after life" at the end...
Are any of the series' writers Mormons? The finale reminded me of stuff they believe about the afterlife...
Mormonism is said to have informed Glen Larson's creation of BSG, BTW.
I wouldn't say that it "means nothing." All of those things like the button or the cabin were never just about those physical things; from the beginning they were always used to highlight a larger struggle between reason and faith, or to allow the characters to learn and grow in some way.
And like Christian said, all that stuff DID really happen. Even if we don't know the reason why every little thing was happening (as we surely wouldn't if we were in their shoes either), their lives WERE really at stake the whole time.
If anything, knowing that this will be such a huge, defining moment in these character's lives (and knowing the incredible journey they will all go on) would make rewatching it even more poignant and meaningful I would think.
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
But it did mean something.
It's the ending of Titanic all over again; wherein Rose dies and goes back to the time in her life when she was happiest, on Titanic with all the people she knew and loved on that doomed cruise, with Leo and in her youthful, beautiful Kate Winslet body -- she returned to her version of everlasting bliss -- the time when she was happiest and most fulfilled in her life.
It's the same thing here, just a little different.
All the stuff on the island happened. The flashbacks, the flash forwards, the return to the island. It all happened.
The story began with Jack and it ended with Jack. As Christian told him, he had to let go. Ironic, given how close we all thought Jack was to doing precisely that in the preceding episodes. The most important thing these characters did happened on the island. The finale was not about the deaths of each of the characters. It was about the death of Jack.
That's why all these people he was friends with, all these people he was close with and loved were there. THere is no "Now," as Christian said -- they all died eventually. But tonight, in that church, it was all of them as Jack needed them to be so he could let go and move on.
Ironic that Ben, in death, recognized that he probably shouldn't have gone in.
Further ironic that each of the other characters, upon seeing their happy futures in the sideways universe/heaven, recognized that they'd see Jack soon enough.
It did have meaning. Jack helped save the world. Hurley became the next Jacob. Ben finally got a job because someone believed in him. Jack finally saved the day, and the last thing he saw was that plane soaring away before he died, right where he began this journey.
No man is an island. Jack needed each of his friends' help to get there. For Jack, his happiness was with seeing everyone coupled off and happily together. No Charles Widmore, no others or mercenaries. No Michael or Walt, because Michael killed Ana-Lucia and Libby in cold blood, at least in Jack's eyes. This wasn't the end-all be all of heaven; it was just the people he lived with on that island that mattered most to him.
Given all the repetitive imagery throughout the episode obviously meant to evoke previous scenes we'd scene, I was not at all surprised to see Jack approach the empty coffin and was almost expecting to see him open it to find his own dead body in there -- a literal copy of The Prisoner's famous final revelation ... but what we got was even more profound -- literally, spiritually and figuratively.
Kate, Sawyer, Miles, Richard, Frank (Frank!!!!) may or may not have made it back to the mainland. It doesn't matter because the ultimate irony of the show is that it's about JACK, the character who wasn't even supposed to make it past the pilot. And whether or not that Ajira 316 flight crashed and everyone aboard died or if they all lived to reach their ripe old age, the point is once they died, they came back to help Jack let go of life and move on to the afterlife.
It's the ending of Titanic all over again; wherein Rose dies and goes back to the time in her life when she was happiest, on Titanic with all the people she knew and loved on that doomed cruise, with Leo and in her youthful, beautiful Kate Winslet body -- she returned to her version of everlasting bliss -- the time when she was happiest and most fulfilled in her life.
It's the same thing here, just a little different.
All the stuff on the island happened. The flashbacks, the flash forwards, the return to the island. It all happened.
The story began with Jack and it ended with Jack. As Christian told him, he had to let go. Ironic, given how close we all thought Jack was to doing precisely that in the preceding episodes. The most important thing these characters did happened on the island. The finale was not about the deaths of each of the characters. It was about the death of Jack.
That's why all these people he was friends with, all these people he was close with and loved were there. THere is no "Now," as Christian said -- they all died eventually. But tonight, in that church, it was all of them as Jack needed them to be so he could let go and move on.
Ironic that Ben, in death, recognized that he probably shouldn't have gone in.
Further ironic that each of the other characters, upon seeing their happy futures in the sideways universe/heaven, recognized that they'd see Jack soon enough.
It did have meaning. Jack helped save the world. Hurley became the next Jacob. Ben finally got a job because someone believed in him. Jack finally saved the day, and the last thing he saw was that plane soaring away before he died, right where he began this journey.
No man is an island. Jack needed each of his friends' help to get there. For Jack, his happiness was with seeing everyone coupled off and happily together. No Charles Widmore, no others or mercenaries. No Michael or Walt, because Michael killed Ana-Lucia and Libby in cold blood, at least in Jack's eyes. This wasn't the end-all be all of heaven; it was just the people he lived with on that island that mattered most to him.
Given all the repetitive imagery throughout the episode obviously meant to evoke previous scenes we'd scene, I was not at all surprised to see Jack approach the empty coffin and was almost expecting to see him open it to find his own dead body in there -- a literal copy of The Prisoner's famous final revelation ... but what we got was even more profound -- literally, spiritually and figuratively.
Kate, Sawyer, Miles, Richard, Frank (Frank!!!!) may or may not have made it back to the mainland. It doesn't matter because the ultimate irony of the show is that it's about JACK, the character who wasn't even supposed to make it past the pilot. And whether or not that Ajira 316 flight crashed and everyone aboard died or if they all lived to reach their ripe old age, the point is once they died, they came back to help Jack let go of life and move on to the afterlife.
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I realize what the flash sideways is supposed to be. Given the magic and pure fantasy presented by the show, it's not unreasonable to draw a parallel between the two universes given that they are both essentially the same with one key difference. It's possible that if the island sunk that metaphorically the rest of the world would have "died" because they share that commonality.
However, death and the afterlife seems to be made out to be pretty damn unimportant in this show. It's almost as if it never mattered if anyone ever died, which almost too crazy fundamentalist for me.
It can't be non-linear. It has a beginning (Christian said it was "created"). There's a definite arrow of time ... causes precede effect, people are aware of the past but not the future, etc. It's linear. It just doesn't map to the real universe's chronology.
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
I think we can now establish that when Juliet detonated Jughead at the end of "The Incident", two things happened.
1) The bomb detonated, and combined with another time flash, the released energy sank the island in 1977. This theory is supported by the fact that in the flash-sideways universe, the island, complete with Dharma barracks, Tawaret statue, and Dharma shark are all under the sea as Oceanic 815 flies by (as seen in "LA X."
2) The time flash also, coincidentally transports Juliet, Jack, Sawyer, Sayid, Kate, Hurley, Jin, Rose, Bernard, and Vincent back to 2007.
The flash-sideways are the result of the nuke going off and sinking the island, killing Jacob and the Man in Black in 1977, and thus neither of them being able to affect any of the lives of the Oceanic passengers.
Now, whether or not this means that once the island sank the entire world ended is open to debate. It could just be that the world continued on, or it could be that the world did end and that everything from the flash-sideways is the afterlife. Or, it could be that the lives of the Oceanic passengers were better for the lack of interference from Jacob and his quarrel with the Man in Black.
Either way, the dawning realization of the characters in the flash-sideways segments all season has been united in one singular purpose -- to bring Jack to his end in the prime universe and to allow him to let go of life and move on to a happier existence.
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