Lost 6x04: "The Substitute"
- Thread starter Agent Richard07
- Start date
See here.
The most important ones are:
4 - John Locke
8 - Hugo Reyes
15 - James Ford
16 - Sayid Jarrah
23 - Jack Shephard
42 - Sun-Hwa or Jin-Soo Kwon
The names (Shannon) Rutherford, (Benjamin) Linus, (Charlie) Pace, (Claire or Aaron) Littleton, (Edward) Mars, (Daniel) Faraday, Goodspeed, Pickett, (Charlotte) Lewis, (Miles) Straume, (Rose) Henderson (this was Rose's maiden name) and many others were crossed out.
Locke is no longer a candidate for obvious reasons and we don't know which Kwon the writings meant.
Another note on RoJoHen's theory about Jacob's death being the point of divergence between universes - when he buys the lunchbox Kate was going to steal, her childhood boyfriend Tom Brennan is with her. This ties in to Kate, in the alternate universe, not stopping to retrieve the toy airplane from Edward Mars' case when she had the chance.
Curiously, Kate's name isn't even on the list of names that have been crossed out, at least the ones we can see.
I wonder if we are going to find out why some still living and on the island people are no longer candidates.
Like Miles and Ben and Rose?
I'm mean, sure Ben killed Jacob witch would probably get him kicked off any "new hire" list, but his name was crossed out before he kill Jacob so Jacob must have decided earlier that he was no longer a candidate.
But what have Miles and Rose done (or not done) that would make them no longer candidates?
What's also interesting in that list of crossed out names is that it seems to imply Jacob did arrange for Ben to come to the island as a child, he also seemed to arrange for a few of the Other's to arrive as well, like Pickett & Goodwin, does that mean he had Richard recruit them from the outside world and bring them to the island?
And what about Faraday, Charlotte, and Miles? It was Widmore that brought them to the Island, not apparently Jacob and the Other's. So does this mean that Widmore is still working for Jacob, helping him out by bringing possible candidates to the island?
^RoJoHen's theory makes even more sense if Jacob arranged for Ben and many of the DHARMA people to come to the island.
It explains why Ben is a timid little European History teacher and Ethan is a perfectly friendly doctor in the alternate universe.
Widmore was very selective about bringing Faraday, Charlotte and Miles to the island. While it's obvious why he'd want Faraday - since he would be able to find a way to get to the Island and back to civilisation again afterwards - it wasn't always clear what the purpose of recruiting Charlotte or Miles was.
Yes, Charlotte used to live there and had previously uncovered the remains of a DHARMA Polar Bear earlier in her career, but that doesn't strike me as a particularly special skill in an expedition sent to grab Ben.
It explains why Ben is a timid little European History teacher and Ethan is a perfectly friendly doctor in the alternate universe.
Widmore was very selective about bringing Faraday, Charlotte and Miles to the island. While it's obvious why he'd want Faraday - since he would be able to find a way to get to the Island and back to civilisation again afterwards - it wasn't always clear what the purpose of recruiting Charlotte or Miles was.
Yes, Charlotte used to live there and had previously uncovered the remains of a DHARMA Polar Bear earlier in her career, but that doesn't strike me as a particularly special skill in an expedition sent to grab Ben.
Crazy thought I just had- what if SHEPHERD meant Christian Shepherd?
Yeah, he's dead and all, but who knows.
Yeah, he's dead and all, but who knows.
The season is young.
Sorry, just looking back at my wording - your theory does explain these things. It's the nuke that doesn't.
Well, if the nuke sunk the Island in 1977, then the Others' interaction with the outside world from 1977 onward wouldn't have happened, Widmore wouldn't have been exiled from the Island and trying to get back, etc. Lots of things would be different, and the writers could use the butterfly effect to justify just about any change they liked.
My theory is that they're faking us out with Kate's last name. If she eventually marries Jack or Sawyer, then her last name would be Shepherd or Ford, so she could be the Shepherd or Ford in question, rather than Jack or Sawyer.
Maybe that's how Smokey's plan will fail. Maybe he's counting on the fact that Sawyer is one of Jacob's designated successors, but it'll turn out that "Ford" meant someone else.
But the "Nuke" (I still don't think it was nuclear since they only removed a small portion of the bomb and the "nuclear" part of a nuclear bomb is the big, heavy part that makes the bomb so big.) couldn't have caused the island to sink. Why? because the island is still there in one of the two timelines we are watching, but it went off in both.
The timelines, as far as we know, diverged when the bomb went off, but it still went off in both timelines. So it couldn't have directly caused the island to sink in one timeline, but not in the other. Otherwise when the Losites from 1977 found themselves transported back to the future they would have ended up in the ocean, above a sunken island. But since the island is still there and it appears that nothing has changed in the original timeline, then the Island didn't sink after the bomb went off in the "Main" timeline.
It had to be something else that caused the Island to sink in the alternate timeline.
The timelines, as far as we know, diverged when the bomb went off, but it still went off in both timelines. So it couldn't have directly caused the island to sink in one timeline, but not in the other. Otherwise when the Losites from 1977 found themselves transported back to the future they would have ended up in the ocean, above a sunken island. But since the island is still there and it appears that nothing has changed in the original timeline, then the Island didn't sink after the bomb went off in the "Main" timeline.
It had to be something else that caused the Island to sink in the alternate timeline.
Well in the alt/time, Desmond isn't there to push the button. No button=island sink?
But there were other people there to push the button. If Desmond hand't shown up on the island (never shipwrecked or maybe never even went of the race) Kelvin would still be there to push the button right up until the day of the crash. The only reason Kelvin tried to escape was because he had Desmond's boat to get away. Remember Kelvin died the same day that flight 815 crashed, and he only died because Desmond accidentally killed him. So if Desmond wasn't there then Kelvin would have pressed the button on time and 815 wouldn't have crashed and the Island would still be there on the surface.
So it couldn't be from Desmond not pushing the button.
Whatever it is that caused the Island to sink would have to have happened before Desmond ever reached the island.
What it could be is that in the Alternate timeline as decission is made and Dharma leaves the island for good, while in "our" timeline they ended up staying and building the Swan, and all the other stations that we know about.
This is exactly what I don't think. I think the timelines diverged as a result of Jacob's death. Not only that, but I think the timeline diverged several times in several places. It diverged every time that Jacob didn't visit one of our heroes. I really do believe that Jacob's influence exists outside of linear time. Hell, maybe Jacob NEVER existed in the Alternate Timeline.
I don't think the nuke has as much to do with things as we are being led to believe. The nuke is a red herring, whose only real purpose was bring our heroes back to their own time.
Checkmate
Commodore
I'm pretty sure the creators of the show came out and told us, quite directly, that the other timeline is a direct result of their actions in the past, particularly the bombing. They wanted to show us the consequences of that selfish action and why one has to think of the bigger picture rather than just their own existence when it comes to meddling with time.
Yah, The only reason I would think that the timeline diverged after the incident was from what Juliet said, ie. that "it worked". If she was referring to the blast, then it would seem that that is when the timelines diverged, but of course it could have been something else she was talking about.
Right, because LOST is known for having direct and obvious explanations.
I agree.
Although, I do suppose, if the Nuke was the cause of the timeline's splitting, it's possible that it killed Alternate Jacob, which would have also prevented him from visiting the Losties in that universe.
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Interestingly, if Sun is the last name, she would be the only female.
