Losing Voyager

[DonIago]

Also, in a real-world sense, I can't see them making Rosalind Chao a regular (nor her necessarily being interested), but if you include a character with that level of significance on Voyager and don't show them at regular intervals, that's going to raise a lot of eyebrows. And if you kill her, it's even worse.

 

[Farscape One]

I think a lot of eyebrows were raised with Naomi appearing as much as she did while her mother didn't appear at all after "ONCE UPON A TIME", the 5th episode of season 5. That's almost 3 full seasons without her mom. (And I don't count her appearance in "FURY" because it took place in the past before she told Janeway she was pregnant.)

 

[DonIago]

^I agree. It was as though Seven became more of a mother to Naomi than Samantha was.

 

[Lynx]

Maybe they could have written in that someone on Chakotay's ship was close to Keiko and Janeway decided to take her due to reasons. Boom, we watch Keiko grieving over not seeing Miles and Molly while on Voyager, and Miles and Molly mourning the loss of their wife/mother on DS9.

No, that would have been horrible!
Too much of a soap opera with having Keiko constantly whining over how much she msses Miles and Molly.

I'm really conflicted on this one... On the one hand, yes, I get it ... on the other...
I feel Miles went through enough as it is during DS9 without having to pile that on top of it... so, I dunno.

I agree. Leave the O'Briens alone. They had already too much as it was, not to mention that they were actually a nice couple so why destroy that.

That's kind of the point. There should be Maquis who don't fit in as Starfleet. Just use the opportunity provided by Planet 37's to eliminate them.

Maybe a few. But I still like to keep most of them because it would have made common sense that they stayed on the ship.

Let's put it tis way. Let us assume that I was a Maquis and that a boss I had on one of my jobs, in fact the best boss I've had on any job and my buddies there were Maquis too.

Then we get stranded on some uninhabited island and the only way back to the civilization would be Captain Hank's rickety barge and its half-wit crew.

OK, I don't like hank, the crew and the ship but what alternative do I get? To swim over the pacific or uuse a row boat?

Then my boss comes up and say: "OK guys, none of us likes this but it's our only way out of here! So I want you to come along and do this!"

Then I would do it because I do trust that guy and because my other colleagues and friends agree on that, not because I like it.

Nice, maybe. But ridiculous, when you think about it. I'd have had a few Maquis leave, as well as Joe Carey. Because if soneone was -ing PROMOTED for assaulting me, I'd be pissed too.

I wouldn't like that scenario because Carey was a good character who culd have been better used in the series.

In fact, if I had been in charge of the show, thenI would have omitted the scene when B'Elanna assaults Carey totally because it was another example of bad writing and it created an unacceptable situation. in fact, B*Elanna should have been court martialed for what she did and never been given the post as Chief Engineer and carey should never have accepted being overlooked for someone who almost killed him.

Bad writing!

It indicated their provisional status. Once Voyager was in contact with Starfleet and they confirmed the field commissions, they could just go to regular pips.

Still a bad idea. If you really want to have an united crew, then you just have to scrap such rigamarole.
Not to mention that they shouldn't have had any contact with Starfleet and Earth Headquarters until season 7 if the series had had good writers.

Actually, he was a LCDR when he resigned. Janeway didn't give Chakotay a field commission per se; she reactivated an existing one.

Maybe, but why give Paris a full Starfleet commission and not Chakotay who had served longer in Starfleet and had higher rank.

Paris was just an Ensign when he was kicked out of Starfleet. promoting him to Lieutenant was OK but he should also have had a provisional rank if Starfleet rigamarole should be used.

Temporary commissions vs. full commissions.

Like Wesley's acting Ensign uniform.

I know.

But still silly in the situation they were.

 

[Oddish]

I think a lot of eyebrows were raised with Naomi appearing as much as she did while her mother didn't appear at all after "ONCE UPON A TIME", the 5th episode of season 5.

I remember that one Trek reference site actually believed she had died in that episode because she disappeared after it.

 

[at Quark's]

I remember that one Trek reference site actually believed she had died in that episode because she disappeared after it.

That's no guarantee of them having died. See Lt. Carey. (Who did die only shortly after he resurfaced, unfortunately. It's almost as if they thought, hey, we need to wrap up this loose thread. I would have liked it more had he just survived).

 

[Oddish]

If they had written him out via "The 37's", they could have just had him return in "Shattered" instead of "Friendship One".

 

[DonIago]

After Eternal Ensign Kim, bringing back Carey just to redshirt him...only to have Admiral Janeway bring everyone home afterward, when she could presumably have traveled back to a few weeks earlier...felt like the most mean-spirited thing the Voyager writers even did, unless I'm forgetting other things (I'm not forgetting Tuvix and Lessing, but those have decent justifications even if you don't agree with the decisions made by the characters).

 

[Oddish]

Yeah. Pretty rotten. Sometimes it's easy to overlook that a character was really badly treated, because they're not a major part of the story as a whole.

 

[Farscape One]

You know another glaring reset button?

The Equinox 5. None of those five left on Voyager were ever seen or even mentioned again. I actually wonder what their fate was when they got to Earth.

Did they actually earn some trust in those 2 years they were aboard and Janeway went to bat for them at Starfleet?

Did she just let Starfleet deal with them completely?

Did they get prison time? Discharged from Starfleet?

We only got to know Gilmore and Lessing a bit, but I still wonder to this day.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

The Equinox 5. None of those five left on Voyager were ever seen or even mentioned again. I actually wonder what their fate was when they got to Earth.

Gilmore, Lessing and Tassoni weren't seen for referred to again on the show, but Crewman James Morrow appeared in the background of Drive and Author, Author and Brian Sofin appeared in Homestead, so it's likely that the first three weren't included in later episodes for availability reasons.

 

[Farscape One]

Gilmore, Lessing and Tassoni weren't seen for referred to again on the show, but Crewman James Morrow appeared in the background of Drive and Author, Author and Brian Sofin appeared in Homestead, so it's likely that the first three weren't included in later episodes for availability reasons.

Okay, background actors. I didn't catch them. And I can understand availability reasons for the others, even though we've seen quite often VOYAGER forgetting members of the crew exist. (Lt. Carey, anyone?) So I don't really buy that one. But they were never mentioned again after "EQUINOX, PART II". Considering what that crew did, it's surprising there isn't a single reference again, particularly after they got into monthly contact with Starfleet.

 

[Thomas Eugene]

You know another glaring reset button?

The Equinox 5. None of those five left on Voyager were ever seen or even mentioned again. I actually wonder what their fate was when they got to Earth.

Did they actually earn some trust in those 2 years they were aboard and Janeway went to bat for them at Starfleet?

Did she just let Starfleet deal with them completely?

Did they get prison time? Discharged from Starfleet?

We only got to know Gilmore and Lessing a bit, but I still wonder to this day.

I know this is not canon but this book has some very good short stories, I think:
Postimages

OR THE TIGER is a B'Elanna story including some of the Equinox crew. Quite a good one.
BRIEF CANDLE is with Harry and Marika Willkarah, one of the former Borg drones from Survival Instinct.
LETTING GO is about Janeway's fiancé, Mark, and Greskrendtregk, Samantha Wildman's husband (Sisko also makes a brief appearance in this one).

My personal fav is EIGHTEEN MINUTES, which is about what happened to the Doctor while he was down on that planet in Blink of an Eye.

Just an idea really if you want to find out more about the Voyager characters. I basically like all the short stories here, with Janeway, Seska and the Borg Queen providing a kind of framework to the whole anthology.

 

[Oddish]

Did they actually earn some trust in those 2 years they were aboard and Janeway went to bat for them at Starfleet?

In "The Autobiography of Kathryn Janeway", they found a measure of redemption. Marla Gilmore even wound up teaching a relevant course at the Academy.

My personal theory is that they were reinstated to their former ranks upon their return... then promptly court martialed for several crimes, including mass murder. However, Starfleet let them off easy because of the sheer desperation of the situation, and because they were following orders. They served a few months in New Zealand, then were released.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

The breakup should have taken place in season 2 during 2-3 episodes, not as some main plot but something which could have been going on in the background for a while and then a decent, well-explained breakup instead of what we got in the otherwise good episode Warlord.

She doesn't have it on her mind for a while and either a) lacking her previous inhibitions/fears about telling him due to her condition, admits it by finding the emotional courage b) blurts it out unexpectedly and later has a longer involved talk about it, or c) the alien spills her secrets against her will.

 

[Anwar]

I agree but I would like to see the process unfold rather than "Eh, we're over it."

The biggest way Voyager handled conflict was like shared distress and now we're good.

Well for atleast the first part of the first season, instead of going straight into stand alone weekly, use the first half of the season to tell the story of 2 crews coming together, maybe even a mutany, or finding a habitable planet or freindly aliens that would take refugees. Also during that time having the crew come to terms with there new normal. People freaking out, maybe even some suicides. by the half season most of this would be sorted out, crew would be the crew, and people getting on with there new normal lives.
Maybe after a year, there would be a rehash of where the crew is mentaly, have a few wanting to jump ship, they cant see themselves on the ship.
They never really showed a ships counselor, except Nelix.. (ugh)

Honestly so many story ideas that even a partially serialized show like SNW does would have improved the series 1000%

Just have there be infighting and squabbling for a year, then have the malcontents blow when they reach Planet 37's. After that, the Maquis put on Starfleet uniforms. And, after "Pathfunder", go to normal pipips instead of those bars on their colllars.

Look at the Walking Dead and how it handled the conflict in the group there, where the main conflict was between Rick and Shane for the first two seasons. How did that go?

It ended with Shane going psycho and then Rick having to put a mad dog down. After that, the group stopped conflicting and fell in line behind Rick and stayed that way with no one challenging him. They'd run into new people and have conflict with them...and then those new people would tend to all get killed a few episodes later just to terminate THAT conflict.

Sorry, but internal conflict like that just can't last long, and it never ends well.

Would you have preferred Chakotary trying to kill Janeway 3 times, Janeway finally having enough and killing Chakotay and this is what scares the Maquis enough into getting in line, and then have the remaining dissenters get killed in Kazon attacks just to terminate their conflict too?

 

[fireproof78]

Would you have preferred Chakotary trying to kill Janeway 3 times, Janeway finally having enough and killing Chakotay and this is what scares the Maquis enough into getting in line, and then have the remaining dissenters get killed in Kazon attacks just to terminate their conflict too?

Hyperbolic statement is hyperbolic.

This handling of conflict, and referencing an irrelevant show is beyond absurd.

 

[A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees]

Would you have preferred Chakotary trying to kill Janeway 3 times, Janeway finally having enough and killing Chakotay and this is what scares the Maquis enough into getting in line, and then have the remaining dissenters get killed in Kazon attacks just to terminate their conflict too?

I suspect Robert Beltran might have preferred it given his open disdain for the Trek writing and formula by the end of the series.

 

[Lynx]

She doesn't have it on her mind for a while and either a) lacking her previous inhibitions/fears about telling him due to her condition, admits it by finding the emotional courage b) blurts it out unexpectedly and later has a longer involved talk about it, or c) the alien spills her secrets against her will.

Maybe, but the whole thing should have been better explained in the series by having the break-up occur during two-three episodes.

Look at the Walking Dead and how it handled the conflict in the group there, where the main conflict was between Rick and Shane for the first two seasons. How did that go?

It ended with Shane going psycho and then Rick having to put a mad dog down. After that, the group stopped conflicting and fell in line behind Rick and stayed that way with no one challenging him. They'd run into new people and have conflict with them...and then those new people would tend to all get killed a few episodes later just to terminate THAT conflict.

Sorry, but internal conflict like that just can't last long, and it never ends well.

Would you have preferred Chakotary trying to kill Janeway 3 times, Janeway finally having enough and killing Chakotay and this is what scares the Maquis enough into getting in line, and then have the remaining dissenters get killed in Kazon attacks just to terminate their conflict too?

I suspect Robert Beltran might have preferred it given his open disdain for the Trek writing and formula by the end of the series.

Well, The Living Dead is one of those dystopian series I do my best to avoid so I'm not surprised about the joyful and inspiring scenario described above.

I'm happy that Voyager never became something like that.

As for Chakotay, he could have been more independent and showed up different opinions on some occasions, maybe like Kira did to Sisko sometimes.

But I see no reason to have a lot of squabbling and infighting between Janeway and Chakotay. Nor do I see anything meaningful in having a lot of bickering and fighting among a crew on a ship. In the long run, it's only annoying, especially when the crew do have a common goal to strive for.

Bickering and fighting was the main problem for Stargate Universe and it really dragged that series down.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

But I see no reason to have a lot of squabbling and infighting between Janeway and Chakotay. Nor do I see anything meaningful in having a lot of bickering and fighting among a crew on a ship. In the long run, it's only annoying, especially when the crew do have a common goal to strive for.

I liked Scorpion (the TV show, not the VOY episode) for the missions they went on, but they kept having the same arguments over and over. And then

Spoiler: if you haven't seen the series

it ends with them all mad at each other and divided - which was meant to set up a cliffhanger for a season 5 that never came -so frustrating!