Lorca: Fans Will Have To Adjust

[Jedman67]

I don't know. Wasn't one of the reasons that "Enterprise" got cancelled was because nobody was watching and people had gotten tired of Trek?

Jason

Enterprise wasn't popular because it was supposed to be a fresh take on Star Trek but instead ended up regurgitating a lot of the problematic show structure of Voyager and TNG. The direction was kind of lacking, the writing was lackluster at best and the acting wasn't enough to save it. Overall it was a fairly mediocre show that promised a lot more than it gave. S4 had a chance to save it but instead spent the whole time pandering to TOS/TNG fans.

It just comes off as arrogant, an insult to fans and an assumption that his show is going to be any good in the first place and people have no right to complain about things. Anyway, I'm done with it. I'm not going to actively avoid his stuff, but he's no longer an actor that I'm interested in seeing on shows or in movies. In this show he's far from the worst thing (he's not even the actor I dislike the most on Discovery, since Rainn Wilson is on the show), but he's now another element I actively dislike and another reason to hate the show overall. I don't have much more to say about him, really.

I find it to be more of a challenge - keep an open mind, try to enjoy it for what it offers. If all you want is a continuation of TOS, then Discovery is not for you. TOS is dead and buried and it ain't coming back. If you want to see how Star Trek captures a modern audience and finds a place to speak to 2017, then give it an honest chance. Keep an open mind, see how they channel the core of Star Trek for a new era.

 

[Vger23]

The hate watching phenomenon you've all been discussing isn't about self-abuse.

It's about maintaining the ability to come into forums like this one and generate conflict with others who feel differently.

Don't have any doubts about that.

 

[Roald]

Everyone has to start somewhere. I mean, I'm as baffled by "hate watching" as you, but so what? It's their time and apparently you can be quite successful at it now in life.

As much as I agree that going in with an open mind is a positive thing, let's face it-rarely do we do so. There is a trend of having to comment on something before it even occurs now, with hyper-reactivity, and an almost adolescent style rage ("My life is ruined!") to what is different.

Besides, hate is rarely logical

You are correct, I too have preconceptions about trailers, etc. When I see a trailer for some comedy at the movies, I usually think to myself 'don't need to see that..' But I realise I cannot make a true judgment, I know that: trailers can be very misleading, and therefor I know: if I really want to judge this comedy, I should see it. They only thing I can say is that I THINK I won't like the film ('cause I usually really hate a certain type of comedy). But that is not what is going on here. kirk55555 literally said: "The fact that they've made a version of Trek worse then the 09 movie (...)" Fact?! How presumptuous..! I mean, at least acknowledge the fact (yes, this time it's fact) that it's a preconception.

 

[Jedi_Master]

What bothers TruFans™ the most when actors or showrunners make comments like this is that the person making the comment is revealing that the TruFan™ is irrelevant.
What a TruFan™ wants more than anything is to be relevant. He (usually he) realizes that a person who LIKES a show disappears into the background, one of a majority who consumes the media in question, praises it, but never stands out. However, if you can be part of a group consumed with irrational anger... now you can BE SOMEBODY, even if it is only in that very small group. You can post angry messages on Facebook, comment on YT video after YT video, attack on Twitter, and oftentimes you can draw people into arguments, for even if they mock and deride you they are PAYING ATTENTION to you.
You are relevant.
But when an actor or showrunner exposes your impotence, now it's REALLY time to rage, and mention all the times that the anger of a few fans co-related with the financial failure of a particular film, ignoring all the times that the anger of a few fans co-related with the spectacular SUCCESS of a particular film.
Jason Isaacs exposed the truth - TruFans™ need something to hate, so that they can remain relevant. But, in all reality, they don't make a difference, and are best ignored.

 

[Krandor]

You are correct, I too have preconceptions about trailers, etc. When I see a trailer for some comedy at the movies, I usually think to myself 'don't need to see that..' But I realise I cannot make a true judgment, I know that: trailers can be very misleading, and therefor I know: if I really want to judge this comedy, I should see it. They only thing I can say is that I THINK I won't like the film ('cause I usually really hate a certain type of comedy). But that is not what is going on here. kirk55555 literally said: "The fact that they've made a version of Trek worse then the 09 movie (...)" Fact?! How presumptuous..! I mean, at least acknowledge the fact (yes, this time it's fact) that it's a preconception.

The goal of a trailer is to make you want to see the show/movie and if they don't do that they have failed.

However on a similar note I kow mcfarland has said during interviews that the orville isn't as comedy heavy as the trailers make it look so that may be another misleading trailer.

 

[Roald]

@Roald were you active on the board during Enterprise? There had to be 10-15 people every week that hate watched that show and spent hours posting about everything they hated about it. That was one of the reasons I took a 10 year break from the TBBS.......seems like it was much more negative back then.

I was a member back then, but not very active. I was involved more in a smaller forum back then, and saw the same thing...

 

[fireproof78]

kirk55555 literally said: "The fact that they've made a version of Trek worse then the 09 movie (...)" Fact?! How presumptuous..! I mean, at least acknowledge the fact (yes, this time it's fact) that it's a preconception.

I rarely agree with kirk55555 but, in this instance, I will stand up for him. When he states a "fact" he is speaking for himself, and himself only. He is quite blunt and forceful in his statements, but, to his credit, he will acknowledge that he can only speak for himself.

So, don't get hung up on the terminology.

What bothers TruFans™ the most when actors or showrunners make comments like this is that the person making the comment is revealing that the TruFan™ is irrelevant.
What a TruFan™ more than anything is to be relevant. He (usually he) realizes that a person who LIKES a show disappears into the background, one of a majority who consumes the media in question, praises it, but never stands out. However, if you can be part of a group consumed with irrational anger... now you can BE SOMEBODY, even if it is only in that very small group. You can post angry messages on Facebook, comment on YT video after YT video, attack on Twitter, and oftentimes you can draw people into arguments, for even if they mock and deride you they are PAYING ATTENTION to you.
You are relevant.
But when an actor or showrunner exposes your impotence, now it's REALLY time to rage, and mention all the times that the anger of a few fans co-related with the financial failure of a particular film, ignoring all the times that the anger of a few fans co-related with the spectacular SUCCESS of a particular film.
Jason Isaacs exposed the truth - TruFans™ need something to hate, so that they can remain relevant. But, in all reality, they don't make a difference, and are best ignored.

I really don't know if I should applaud or be offended...

I need Twitter to tell me how I really feel

 

[InfiniteBatmans]

I wrote an article on my site about this.
(link deleted by mod)

 

[Vger23]

Enterprise wasn't popular because it was supposed to be a fresh take on Star Trek but instead ended up regurgitating a lot of the problematic show structure of Voyager and TNG. The direction was kind of lacking, the writing was lackluster at best and the acting wasn't enough to save it. Overall it was a fairly mediocre show that promised a lot more than it gave. S4 had a chance to save it but instead spent the whole time pandering to TOS/TNG fans.


I find it to be more of a challenge - keep an open mind, try to enjoy it for what it offers. If all you want is a continuation of TOS, then Discovery is not for you. TOS is dead and buried and it ain't coming back. If you want to see how Star Trek captures a modern audience and finds a place to speak to 2017, then give it an honest chance. Keep an open mind, see how they channel the core of Star Trek for a new era.

Most people resistant to DSC are NOT TOS fans. It's TNG-era fans looking for the post-Nemesis timeline and TNG visual style. They use the "BUTT TEH CANNON!!!1!" arguments to try to prove that a show in their less-liked era cannot be done.

We like to say it's TOS purists...but don't kid yourself. Most hardcore TOS fans are well beyond that kind of shit at this point. We just want a great show.

 

[Roald]

I wrote an article on my site about this.
(link deleted by mod)

Loved every word of this, especially this:
"I think it's sucked a lot of the childish joy out of watching new entertainment, and I think it's an attitude we need to fight against."
I love the use of the word childish here, 'cause it's true: the looking foreward to a new film, a new series, should make you feel like a kid again..! It's a great feeling, one I am so glad to be able to experience. I wish this for everyone, that's why the hatred and predetermined harsh cirtitism is so bizarre to me...

 

[Mudd]

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be hunting, but I'll get that motherfucker.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Most people resistant to DSC are NOT TOS fans. It's TNG-era fans looking for the post-Nemesis timeline and TNG visual style. They use the "BUTT TEH CANNON!!!1!" arguments to try to prove that a show in their less-liked era cannot be done.

We like to say it's TOS purists...but don't kid yourself. Most hardcore TOS fans are well beyond that kind of shit at this point. We just want a great show.

Amen, a thousand times Amen.
Folks who grew up with that style tend to be the ones bashing anything that doesn't conform to it, including DSC.
They also are pre-loving The Orville. Why? Because it LOOKS like TNG.

 

[Vger23]

I rarely agree with kirk55555 but, in this instance, I will stand up for him. When he states a "fact" he is speaking for himself, and himself only. He is quite blunt and forceful in his statements, but, to his credit, he will acknowledge that he can only speak for himself.

So, don't get hung up on the terminology.


I really don't know if I should applaud or be offended...

I need Twitter to tell me how I really feel

But, the word "fact" has a pretty clear meaning...and "personal opinion" ain't it. There is actually a massive distinction between the two concepts. But, I genuinely appreciate you trying to make the nice man feel better.

 

[fireproof78]

Loved every word of this, especially this:
"I think it's sucked a lot of the childish joy out of watching new entertainment, and I think it's an attitude we need to fight against."
I love the use of the word childish here, 'cause it's true: the looking foreward to a new film, a new series, should make you feel like a kid again..! It's a great feeling, one I am so glad to be able to experience. I wish this for everyone, that's why the hatred and predetermined harsh cirtitism is so bizarre to me...

This is one thing that I do not get why the childlike joy of watching something is actively championed against. That baffles me.

When I walked out of the theater from 09 or ST ID or Beyond, there was such a feeling of fun and enjoyment that I couldn't wait to share it with someone. Of course, the Internet is not a kind place for that

I feel the same way about Star Wars. Star Wars has never been this deep, philosophical tome to be bandied about by scholars. It's a child's story at its heart, designed to entertain and have fun with, and maybe touch on deeper facets of life. But, it always returns to that fun.

Despite my growing up, despite getting older, I too want to retain that kid experience when watching something. To allow that sense of wonder to filter the adult voice for just a moment, and not worry if others like it or not.

So, I like TFA because it made me feel like a kid again. I like the Kelvin films for the same reason, and the adult me can appreciate the artistry of the story. I just watched the 5th Pirates movie, and that is a film to make me feel like a kid while tugging on the adult heart strings.

Incidentally, this is why I don't like GoT. GoT has the appearance of grim seriousness that come across as very adult, and if you don't get it then "sucks to be you". There is no joy in exploring that world, no sense of adventure, and no fantasy feeling of fun.

Yes, DSC might be more "adult" in its sensibilities but I'm looking forward to the adventure.

But, the word "fact" has a pretty clear meaning...and "personal opinion" ain't it. There is actually a massive distinction between the two concepts. But, I genuinely appreciate you trying to make the nice man feel better.

It's more personal experience than anything else

 

[KennyB]

This is one thing that I do not get why the childlike joy of watching something is actively championed against. That baffles me.

When I walked out of the theater from 09 or ST ID or Beyond, there was such a feeling of fun and enjoyment that I couldn't wait to share it with someone. Of course, the Internet is not a kind place for that

I feel the same way about Star Wars. Star Wars has never been this deep, philosophical tome to be bandied about by scholars. It's a child's story at its heart, designed to entertain and have fun with, and maybe touch on deeper facets of life. But, it always returns to that fun.

Despite my growing up, despite getting older, I too want to retain that kid experience when watching something. To allow that sense of wonder to filter the adult voice for just a moment, and not worry if others like it or not.

So, I like TFA because it made me feel like a kid again. I like the Kelvin films for the same reason, and the adult me can appreciate the artistry of the story. I just watched the 5th Pirates movie, and that is a film to make me feel like a kid while tugging on the adult heart strings.

Incidentally, this is why I don't like GoT. GoT has the appearance of grim seriousness that come across as very adult, and if you don't get it then "sucks to be you". There is no joy in exploring that world, no sense of adventure, and no fantasy feeling of fun.

Yes, DSC might be more "adult" in its sensibilities but I'm looking forward to the adventure.

It's more personal experience than anything else

Wonderful post and I agree with everything, except I do love me some GoT, however I'm still waiting for a live action adaptation of The Prydain Chronicles as well to make me feel like a kid again.

 

[Roald]

This is one thing that I do not get why the childlike joy of watching something is actively championed against. That baffles me.

When I walked out of the theater from 09 or ST ID or Beyond, there was such a feeling of fun and enjoyment that I couldn't wait to share it with someone. Of course, the Internet is not a kind place for that

I feel the same way about Star Wars. Star Wars has never been this deep, philosophical tome to be bandied about by scholars. It's a child's story at its heart, designed to entertain and have fun with, and maybe touch on deeper facets of life. But, it always returns to that fun.

Despite my growing up, despite getting older, I too want to retain that kid experience when watching something. To allow that sense of wonder to filter the adult voice for just a moment, and not worry if others like it or not.

So, I like TFA because it made me feel like a kid again. I like the Kelvin films for the same reason, and the adult me can appreciate the artistry of the story. I just watched the 5th Pirates movie, and that is a film to make me feel like a kid while tugging on the adult heart strings.

Incidentally, this is why I don't like GoT. GoT has the appearance of grim seriousness that come across as very adult, and if you don't get it then "sucks to be you". There is no joy in exploring that world, no sense of adventure, and no fantasy feeling of fun.

Yes, DSC might be more "adult" in its sensibilities but I'm looking forward to the adventure.

It's more personal experience than anything else

Great post, from the heart, and very, very recognizable! Scary almost!

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

The hate watching phenomenon you've all been discussing isn't about self-abuse.

It's about maintaining the ability to come into forums like this one and generate conflict with others who feel differently.

Don't have any doubts about that.

I don't think it is that, either. In fact, I don't think they even hate the show.

What it comes down to is the desire to feel victimized by the big bad "Powers That Be". Being able to cry out about being victimized, or insulted, appalled, or otherwise have their rights trampled on is the new thing that seemingly almost everyone wants to be part of these days.

Being victimized enough to complain about the entity who victimized/made them feel appalled/insulted them (either themselves or on the behalf of others) seems to be a way of life for some people, because being victimized (or voicing victimization on the behalf of others) makes them feel special. I think there are some people out there who just try too hard to find a reason to be able to feel special.

 

[Jedi_Master]

I think there are some people out there who just try too hard to find a reason to be able to feel special.

Or relevant?

 

[uniderth]

51 years man..........and it's all make believe BTW. I think it would be awesome to find out that Issacs has been a lurking member here for years.........or a mod. LMAO.

I'm Isaacs!

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[Krandor]

I don't think it is that, either. In fact, I don't think they even hate the show.

What it comes down to is the desire to feel victimized by the big bad "Powers That Be". Being able to cry out about being victimized, or insulted, appalled, or otherwise have their rights trampled on is the new thing that seemingly almost everyone wants to be part of these days.

Being victimized enough to complain about the entity who victimized/made them feel appalled/insulted them (either themselves or on the behalf of others) seems to be a way of life for some people, because being victimized (or voicing victimization on the behalf of others) makes them feel special. I think there are some people out there who just try too hard to find a reason to be able to feel special.

That is true and I think some of that is also an offshoot of people who disliked the JJ Abrams reboots and now with the discovery changes they have seen are just convinced CBS/P hate star trek.