And reading this thread: Not disappointed.The visual representation of what has happened here:
Lorca: Fans Will Have To Adjust
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I call ENT Proto-New Trek... or New Trek produced by the Old Trek team.
They wanted a fresh start but it's hard to pull off when you've already been doing the same thing for a decade to a decade-and-a-half and all the best creative talent have already left or have become worn out.
Battlestar Galactica and Star Trek (2009) pulled off what Enterprise couldn't. We'll see with Discovery. It's all new people, and they're not doing more-of-the-same, so those are a plus.
Exactly what are you talking about? Who is this friend that bought me ticket for Star Trek movie? And which movie do I hate?
Here is where we will never disagree, and I honestly think you just disqualify yourself as a valuable debater. FFS, at least actually watch a thing before spewing shit about it...
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That should be "happens," sorry, but yeah, it always seems that people who really don't like a show or movie have someone who gets them what they want without them having to contribute to the actual production itself. I used to see it all the time in the Star Trek 2009/Into Darkness movie threads, where posters who swore they hated the films still managed to see it because a friend bought them a ticket and forced them to go. It makes it convenient so they don't have to deal with people rightly pointing out that judging a show or movie without watching it is laughably absurd and pointless.
My favorite is the folks who buy the film, just so they can take dramatic photos of it in their cat's litterbox or setting it aflame. Gives them extra "hater" points.
I actually don't post in the JJTrek forum, and only occasionally in the Enterprise forum. As for Discovery I don't plan on not watching it. Perhaps they've found a way to fit their new visuals into existing canon. I'm willing to give it a chance before completely dismissing it.
That frequently does become a hindrance, which has lead to the unintentional derailing of many a thread. The one that comes to mind most was the thread about Zephram Cochrane inventing warp drive first before many other Alpha Quadrant species. It's a concept that was really fascinating and doesn't actually directly contradict anything, unless you accept Enterprise. It would have been cool to look at that idea in more depth, but
Agreed. But my critiques are not based on the quality of the film or the story telling, but rather the content. Those story elements are available and do not require an actual viewing of the film to discuss.
Here is where we will never disagree, and I honestly think you just disqualify yourself as a valuable debater. FFS, at least actually watch a thing before spewing shit about it...
As stated above. I don't need to actually view the film before commenting on the content. If I was talking about the quality of the film or the emotional moments of the film then yes, you would have to watch the film before you could have a valid view. But am I wrong that having Spock go back into an alternative timeline created by the main villain Nero going back in time, was a plot point of the movie? no. Because that information is available WITHOUT having first seen the film. It is that sort of thing that I'm commenting on.
It's not like all the production material, clips on youtube, and plot synopsis are lies; and the REAL JJTrek(2009) is completely faithful to established canon, with no alternative timeline; but you can only know that if you actually watch the film. No. The content of the film is the same whether I watch it or read about it.
Yeah right:For all the STD fanzboyz who missed the blatant error in his statement:
Season 4 DS9 Uniforms:
Season 5 DS9 Uniforms:
^^^^
Yep - DS9 Season 5 must be non canon .
My point ST: D starts 2 to 3 years AFTER what was seen in the episode "The Cage" - as per the first Season TOS episode "The Menagerie" the inciidents on Talos IV (per Spock) "occurred 13 years ago". TNG changed it's uniforms by the third season - they were changed again for DS9's first season (what would have been TNG's 8th) - and CHANGED again for DS9's 5th Season (as shown above). Starfleet seems to have a habit of cjhhanging their uniforn design every few years.
Conclusion: You'll have to find something else, because sorry - until ST: D we had no on screen photo of what a Starfleet uniform looked like 10 years prior to TOS. Just fanon assumptions.
So yeah, 1987 (with TNG as opposed to TOS) effectively repeats itself.
Yep - Hey in 1987 TNG was a DRASTIC CHANGE compared to TOS - so more evidence 1987 repeats itself with the hard core TNG fans screaming "Nooooooooooooooooo...NOT TREK!"
This makes no sense. Every version of Star Trek through the history of the franchise has been like this.
- TMP (NOOOOO....NO CHANGE UNIFORMS/ENTERPRISE DESIGN/KIRK's HAIR/KLINGONS/EVERYTHING!!!)
- TWOK (NOOOOOO NO CHANGE UNIFORMS/SPOCK DEAD/TOO MUCH PEW PEW!!!!)
- TSFS (NOOOOOO....NO DESTROY THE ENTERPRISE!!!! MY ENTERPRISE!!!!)
- TNG (NOOOOO!!!! NO DO STAR TREK WITHOUT KIRK AND SPOCK!!!!)
- DS9 (NOOOOOO!!!! NO DO STAR TREK WITHOUT A STARSHIP!!!!)
- ENT (NOOOOOO....CAN'T DO A PREQUEL WITHOUT MAKING THE UNIFORMS AND SHIP DESIGNS LOOK LIKE PRE-PIKE!!! NON CANON!!! NON CANON!!! ARRRGGGHHHH!!!)
- JJTREK (NOOOOO!!!! NO DESTROY VULCAN!!! IPOD STORE BRIDGE! TOO MUCH PEW PEW!!!)
In fact, every form of entertainment I've ever seen is like this. The creators create. The consumers consume. There's no crossover in roles there.
How is it supposed to work otherwise?
I mean, they literally got death threats when news broke that Spock would be killed in TWOK. And still, the studio told the fans to go fornicate with themselves (rightfully). You think a few whack-a-doos on the internet who don't like the dark bridge set and Klingon make-up are going to make a difference these days?
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And the funny thing is: For the number of people who complained in 1982 about TWOK not being what their Star Trek is, it's pretty popular. Same thing for TNG. And it can be broken down to three simple words: fear of change.
Well, that... and one more word: entitlement. "It's not the Star Trek *I* want."
Well, that... and one more word: entitlement. "It's not the Star Trek *I* want."
That reality is why the studio and the showrunners don't take the fussing, whining, and threats seriously. Any adjustments will be made due to financial considerations, not nitpicking on the 'Net.
It's about the future, Madame Chancellor. Some people think the future means the end of history. Well, we're not out of history quite yet. Your father called the future...the "undiscovered country."
People can be very frightened of change.
I like that quote.... I wish I could think of where it was from...
Amen.
Princess Bride.
Don't tell the inter web Trek Warriors that.
I honestly believe they still think enough emotional blathering on websites and social media will influence the direction of the show.
Why else do you think people are CONSTANTLY posting "I won't pay for CBSAA?" all over the place? In the hopes that some CBS exec panics and says "Oh noes...the crazy fans REALLY aren't going to pay the same price of a McDonalds's #4 meal to watch a new Star Trek show!!! We better come up with another plan...FAST!!"
There is a FB group that has tried various means to derail the subscription numbers for CBS...and they have been spectacularly unsuccessful. When it was revealed that Netflix money had 'basically paid for' the production of DSC, that made it practically impossible for any fan boycott to have an effect.
This idea of fan control goes back to the (partial) myth that a letter-writing campaign "saved" Trek.
So for decades, Trek fans have been convinced they hold the power, and even the cancellation of ENT, and the creation of nuTrek have not disabused them of that notion. Once again... it goes back to relevance. It's VERY important, in their minds, to be relevant.
Everything expecting or hoping that CBS is going to suddenly change their mind and put it on CBS or netflix are going to be very dissapointed
Am I wrong that Beethoven's Fifth centres around an 8 note motif? That's just too short to be interesting, I don't need to hear it.
Am I wrong that Starship Troopers is about space soldiers fighting big bugs? That's just a stupid concept, I don't need to see it.
Am I wrong that those lads that made Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band also wrote lyrics like 'She loves you, yeah yeah yeah'. I don't need to hear it then, it's just awfully simplistic.
What I'm getting at is you think you know a film or series by putting some pieces of information together, but what you do is selectively isolate certain elements and you miss out on the maker's intention, you miss out on 'the big picture'. In any case, it is literally your loss...
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