On the surface Dr. Adams is a leading light in rehabilitation. Even TNG had great men who stumble down a dark path, (Dr. Ira Graves)
Looking at how many TOS episodes would've been done on other series
- Thread starter Lord Garth
- Start date
List of episodes for me to re-watch, so I can keep track:
"Starship Down" (DS9)
"Remember" (VOY)
"The Schizoid Man" (TNG)
"Rules of Engagement" (DS9)
List Updated 10/24/23.
"Starship Down" (DS9)
"Remember" (VOY)
"The Schizoid Man" (TNG)
"Rules of Engagement" (DS9)
List Updated 10/24/23.
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I would say "STARSHIP DOWN" is not really similar to "BALANCE OF TERROR" because we don't get a single piece of dialogue from the Jem'Hadar ships. Or a scene. Part of why "BALANCE OF TERROR" was so excellent was that we saw scenes on the Romulan ship's bridge and we got a look at not only their culture but the mind of the commander. It's why the final scene of 'in another life, I could have called you friend' worked so damned good.
13. "The Galileo Seven"
The shuttlecraft Galileo is stranded on a planet's surface. Spock is in command of Landing Party on the shuttle and has to find a way for the Landing Party to survive until help arrives, while he meets resistance at every turn. Meanwhile, the Enterprise is having a hard time locating Spock and the others, and Kirk is being pressured by a Federation Commissioner to abandon the search before it can be completed.
TNG - I could see this being a TNG episode. Just make Data or Worf in charge of the Away Team and have them questioned by junior officers because they're an Android or a Klingon.
DS9 - Similar to TNG, except it might be a main character questioning Worf's decisions.
VOY - See TNG and DS9. This time, Tuvok would be the one whose decisions are questioned. Something similar happened in "Resolutions" when Tuvok was in command of Voyager.
ENT - See TNG, DS9, and VOY. Just make it T'Pol.
DSC - With a few exceptions early in the series, the Discovery crew all get along with each other, so that angle wouldn't work here. But, an Away Team could be stranded on a planet, Discovery could have a hard time locating them, and either Vance, Rillack, or an Asshole of the Week could try to force Burnham to end the search early.
PIC - Not happening on this series.
SNW - Could be exactly like the TOS episode. You even still have Spock! Just switch the names of everyone else.
So SNW could have an episode almost exactly like the version in TOS. TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT could be easily modified. DSC would be a little different, but it's still doable. Outside of PIC, "The Galileo Seven" is the most universal type of episode so far.
The shuttlecraft Galileo is stranded on a planet's surface. Spock is in command of Landing Party on the shuttle and has to find a way for the Landing Party to survive until help arrives, while he meets resistance at every turn. Meanwhile, the Enterprise is having a hard time locating Spock and the others, and Kirk is being pressured by a Federation Commissioner to abandon the search before it can be completed.
TNG - I could see this being a TNG episode. Just make Data or Worf in charge of the Away Team and have them questioned by junior officers because they're an Android or a Klingon.
DS9 - Similar to TNG, except it might be a main character questioning Worf's decisions.
VOY - See TNG and DS9. This time, Tuvok would be the one whose decisions are questioned. Something similar happened in "Resolutions" when Tuvok was in command of Voyager.
ENT - See TNG, DS9, and VOY. Just make it T'Pol.
DSC - With a few exceptions early in the series, the Discovery crew all get along with each other, so that angle wouldn't work here. But, an Away Team could be stranded on a planet, Discovery could have a hard time locating them, and either Vance, Rillack, or an Asshole of the Week could try to force Burnham to end the search early.
PIC - Not happening on this series.
SNW - Could be exactly like the TOS episode. You even still have Spock! Just switch the names of everyone else.
So SNW could have an episode almost exactly like the version in TOS. TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT could be easily modified. DSC would be a little different, but it's still doable. Outside of PIC, "The Galileo Seven" is the most universal type of episode so far.
Haven't posted in this thread in a while. I got side-tracked by watching The 12 Monkeys for the first time and re-watching all of Picard. But now we're back to this thread! I'm going to add to this thread slowly. TOS isn't going anywhere and, realistically, the next season of SNW won't be out until 2025. So, the episodes of all the other live-action series aren't changing for the time being either. What we have is what we have for a while.
14. "Court Martial"
Kirk is accused of perjury when his report about the conditions that resulted in the apparent death of an officer contradicts that the records of the Enterprise's computer. A court-martial is held. Eventually, with the help of Spock and Kirk's lawyer Sam Cogley, it's figured out that the officer faked his own death and altered the Enterprise's records to frame Kirk.
TNG - Could've been a TNG episode. In fact, I think "A Matter of Perspective" come close in its own way. "You're a dead man, Apgar!" RIP, Mark Morgalis. Ding! Ding!
DS9 - Could've been a DS9 episode, though it probably would've been on the Defiant, not the station. Though a uniquely DS9 twist could also be "a murder on the station!" (which happened several times) and a cast member could've been framed for the murder.
VOY - Could've happened on VOY. Paris was framed for murder in "Ex Post Facto".
ENT - In the first two seasons, there could've been an episode where one of the character was framed for murder. "Judgement" doesn't have to do with evidence-tampering and more the Klingons twisted POV, so I don't want to count that. But such an episode still wouldn't have felt out of place.
DSC - There was a subplot, with Section 31 making it look Spock killed people from the hospital he was in, which the Discovery crew later proved was fabricated. So, it could happen, it just wouldn't be the sole focus on specific self-contained episode.
PIC - This series is NO stranger to cover-ups and lies built on lies. But an episodes where one of the characters has to stand trial for a murder they didn't commit, after falsified evidence is presented? I don't see it happening on this series.
SNW - Give it time. Someone will be framed for something eventually.
It's been a while since I've seen "Ex Post Facto", so I'm going to give it TNG's "A Matter of Perspective", right down to the holodeck recreations of the different versions of events.
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15-16. "The Menagerie" (Parts I and II)
Spock hijacks the Enterprise to bring Pike, now an invalid who can't speak, to Talos IV to live out the remainder of his life in illusion. The penalty for visiting Talos IV is death. During the court-martial, they watch "The Cage", which is transmitted from Talos IV. To be clear, I'm only going to look at the frame-up story and not "The Cage" itself, which I already did.
TNG - Starfleet wouldn't have introduced a Death Penalty in this episode. It goes against Gene's view of Enlightened Humanity. Plus it was stupid to begin with. Talos IV isn't so terrible that visiting it deserves the Death Penalty. Crusher could restore Vina's appearance. As far as Pike, they'd come up with a biotechnobabble reason to restore his appearance. So, none of these episodes translates into Non-TOS Trek, with the possible exception of SNW.
DS9 - See TNG.
VOY - No other Starfleet presence besides Voyager, no former Captain to bring to a planet forbidden by Starfleet out in the Delta Quadrant, and the biotechnobbable from TNG and DS9 still applies.
ENT - Starfleet is too new to have a Death Penalty for visiting any planets. It would also look barbaric to the Vulcans, especially if the Humans are trying to prove themselves to be civilized. Disfigured Pike and Disfigured Vina could be a thing in this time-period, but everything else falls apart around it.
DSC - Disco ignored the Death Penalty for visiting Talos IV. Not that I'm complaining. Like I said, I thought it was stupid anyway. Anyway, Spock can't hijack any ship to take Pike to Talos IV because he's not injured yet!
PIC - Stakes are too low. There wouldn't be a death penalty, and Talos IV would have to be critical to the survival of time, space, and dimension. It's not a Picard story. Plus, forget about healing, they could put Pike and Vina in new bodies.
SNW - Can't do an episode like "The Menagerie" because it doesn't happen for another six years! Maybe they'll explain why there's a Death Penalty for visiting Talos IV, but I think they're just as likely to ignore it. If SNW makes it as far as Pike's injury, I do expect them to try to explain why they can't heal him. That's where the biotechnobabble would come in, if they touch upon it. They'll come up with something if they ever cover this.
I don't think "The Menagerie" as is would be done on any other Star Trek series.
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BTW, I'll re-watch any episodes brought up as counterpoints when I get to the end of each season. So I'll check them but not right now. I'll do it all at once, and then mention where I've changed my mind on something.
14. "Court Martial"
Kirk is accused of perjury when his report about the conditions that resulted in the apparent death of an officer contradicts that the records of the Enterprise's computer. A court-martial is held. Eventually, with the help of Spock and Kirk's lawyer Sam Cogley, it's figured out that the officer faked his own death and altered the Enterprise's records to frame Kirk.
TNG - Could've been a TNG episode. In fact, I think "A Matter of Perspective" come close in its own way. "You're a dead man, Apgar!" RIP, Mark Morgalis. Ding! Ding!
DS9 - Could've been a DS9 episode, though it probably would've been on the Defiant, not the station. Though a uniquely DS9 twist could also be "a murder on the station!" (which happened several times) and a cast member could've been framed for the murder.
VOY - Could've happened on VOY. Paris was framed for murder in "Ex Post Facto".
ENT - In the first two seasons, there could've been an episode where one of the character was framed for murder. "Judgement" doesn't have to do with evidence-tampering and more the Klingons twisted POV, so I don't want to count that. But such an episode still wouldn't have felt out of place.
DSC - There was a subplot, with Section 31 making it look Spock killed people from the hospital he was in, which the Discovery crew later proved was fabricated. So, it could happen, it just wouldn't be the sole focus on specific self-contained episode.
PIC - This series is NO stranger to cover-ups and lies built on lies. But an episodes where one of the characters has to stand trial for a murder they didn't commit, after falsified evidence is presented? I don't see it happening on this series.
SNW - Give it time. Someone will be framed for something eventually.
It's been a while since I've seen "Ex Post Facto", so I'm going to give it TNG's "A Matter of Perspective", right down to the holodeck recreations of the different versions of events.
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15-16. "The Menagerie" (Parts I and II)
Spock hijacks the Enterprise to bring Pike, now an invalid who can't speak, to Talos IV to live out the remainder of his life in illusion. The penalty for visiting Talos IV is death. During the court-martial, they watch "The Cage", which is transmitted from Talos IV. To be clear, I'm only going to look at the frame-up story and not "The Cage" itself, which I already did.
TNG - Starfleet wouldn't have introduced a Death Penalty in this episode. It goes against Gene's view of Enlightened Humanity. Plus it was stupid to begin with. Talos IV isn't so terrible that visiting it deserves the Death Penalty. Crusher could restore Vina's appearance. As far as Pike, they'd come up with a biotechnobabble reason to restore his appearance. So, none of these episodes translates into Non-TOS Trek, with the possible exception of SNW.
DS9 - See TNG.
VOY - No other Starfleet presence besides Voyager, no former Captain to bring to a planet forbidden by Starfleet out in the Delta Quadrant, and the biotechnobbable from TNG and DS9 still applies.
ENT - Starfleet is too new to have a Death Penalty for visiting any planets. It would also look barbaric to the Vulcans, especially if the Humans are trying to prove themselves to be civilized. Disfigured Pike and Disfigured Vina could be a thing in this time-period, but everything else falls apart around it.
DSC - Disco ignored the Death Penalty for visiting Talos IV. Not that I'm complaining. Like I said, I thought it was stupid anyway. Anyway, Spock can't hijack any ship to take Pike to Talos IV because he's not injured yet!
PIC - Stakes are too low. There wouldn't be a death penalty, and Talos IV would have to be critical to the survival of time, space, and dimension. It's not a Picard story. Plus, forget about healing, they could put Pike and Vina in new bodies.
SNW - Can't do an episode like "The Menagerie" because it doesn't happen for another six years! Maybe they'll explain why there's a Death Penalty for visiting Talos IV, but I think they're just as likely to ignore it. If SNW makes it as far as Pike's injury, I do expect them to try to explain why they can't heal him. That's where the biotechnobabble would come in, if they touch upon it. They'll come up with something if they ever cover this.
I don't think "The Menagerie" as is would be done on any other Star Trek series.
.
.
.
BTW, I'll re-watch any episodes brought up as counterpoints when I get to the end of each season. So I'll check them but not right now. I'll do it all at once, and then mention where I've changed my mind on something.
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I think if DSC had a ‘Galileo 7’ it should be early in Season 1 and Spock’s role could be filled by Michael.
Why should we trust this mutineer? And so on.
Why should we trust this mutineer? And so on.
17. "The Squire of Gothos"
Trelane, a powerful being who looks like an adult but acts like a child, forces the Enterprise crew to be his playmates. Trelane acts like a General fighting his enemies and even puts Kirk on trial before having one last showdown with him for fun. Then Trelane's parents call him away and they apologize to Kirk.
TNG - This is "Hide & Q". Just replace Trelane with Q and Trelane's parents with the Q Continuum. Except for the courtroom scene, that's "Encounter at Farpoint". So clearly Gene Roddenberry really liked "The Squire of Gothos" and wanted to recycle it. But this is where my rule of only counting from Season 3 on kicks in. Would they have still made this type of episode after Gene Roddenberry stepped back? I'm inclined to say no. Later on, Q is written as someone who likes to have fun but not someone who acts like a child.
DS9 - No. The Prophets and Pah'Wraiths are the only other Godlike beings in DS9, and they couldn't be more different from Q. Q's one appearance on DS9, the aptly named "Q-Less", is a completely different story from Trelane's appearance in "The Squire of Gothos". Q isn't even the cause behind the Mystery of the Week.
VOY - This series took Q the most seriously. Controversial Opinion? Anyway, Q's first appearance in this series, "Deathwish" was opposite another Q who wanted to end his life. His second appearance, "The Q and the Grey", was in the thick of a Q Continuum Civil War. In, his third appearance, "Q2", he had Janeway babysitting his son. Q Junior is now the Trelane while Q Senior is the parent. Q Junior isn't even that bad. So, I'd say "The Squire of Gothos" wouldn't have been done on this series.
ENT - They wouldn't have a Trelane or Q type character on this series. And, in fact, this is the only series from the Berman Era to not have Q in it at all.
DSC - Not happening on Disco. There are no Trelane-like characters. Kovich even says the Federation has had no interaction with the Q Continuum for 600 years. The writers' way of saying they don't want to deal with Q at all. He's completely out of the picture, and not a peep out of the Continuum.
PIC - See what I said about VOY. Except now, Q has gone from the parent to a man at the end of his life. Where he's at is the complete opposite of where Trelane was at.
SNW - Hmmm. They could have a Trelane-type character on SNW, but not Trelane himself. Or he'd know to be able to tell the difference between Napoleon-Era Earth and TOS Era Starfleet. For a Trelane-type character, SNW is silly enough that they'd have an epiosde like this.
Not including TNG's "Hide & Q", where Gene Roddenberry was still heavily involved, I'd say the Post-Roddenberry Star Trek most likely have a Trelane-style character acting like he did in "The Squire of Gothos" is SNW. Even if they don't do an episode like that, it wouldn't look out-of-place if they did.
Trelane, a powerful being who looks like an adult but acts like a child, forces the Enterprise crew to be his playmates. Trelane acts like a General fighting his enemies and even puts Kirk on trial before having one last showdown with him for fun. Then Trelane's parents call him away and they apologize to Kirk.
TNG - This is "Hide & Q". Just replace Trelane with Q and Trelane's parents with the Q Continuum. Except for the courtroom scene, that's "Encounter at Farpoint". So clearly Gene Roddenberry really liked "The Squire of Gothos" and wanted to recycle it. But this is where my rule of only counting from Season 3 on kicks in. Would they have still made this type of episode after Gene Roddenberry stepped back? I'm inclined to say no. Later on, Q is written as someone who likes to have fun but not someone who acts like a child.
DS9 - No. The Prophets and Pah'Wraiths are the only other Godlike beings in DS9, and they couldn't be more different from Q. Q's one appearance on DS9, the aptly named "Q-Less", is a completely different story from Trelane's appearance in "The Squire of Gothos". Q isn't even the cause behind the Mystery of the Week.
VOY - This series took Q the most seriously. Controversial Opinion? Anyway, Q's first appearance in this series, "Deathwish" was opposite another Q who wanted to end his life. His second appearance, "The Q and the Grey", was in the thick of a Q Continuum Civil War. In, his third appearance, "Q2", he had Janeway babysitting his son. Q Junior is now the Trelane while Q Senior is the parent. Q Junior isn't even that bad. So, I'd say "The Squire of Gothos" wouldn't have been done on this series.
ENT - They wouldn't have a Trelane or Q type character on this series. And, in fact, this is the only series from the Berman Era to not have Q in it at all.
DSC - Not happening on Disco. There are no Trelane-like characters. Kovich even says the Federation has had no interaction with the Q Continuum for 600 years. The writers' way of saying they don't want to deal with Q at all. He's completely out of the picture, and not a peep out of the Continuum.
PIC - See what I said about VOY. Except now, Q has gone from the parent to a man at the end of his life. Where he's at is the complete opposite of where Trelane was at.
SNW - Hmmm. They could have a Trelane-type character on SNW, but not Trelane himself. Or he'd know to be able to tell the difference between Napoleon-Era Earth and TOS Era Starfleet. For a Trelane-type character, SNW is silly enough that they'd have an epiosde like this.
Not including TNG's "Hide & Q", where Gene Roddenberry was still heavily involved, I'd say the Post-Roddenberry Star Trek most likely have a Trelane-style character acting like he did in "The Squire of Gothos" is SNW. Even if they don't do an episode like that, it wouldn't look out-of-place if they did.
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You seem a little too focused on 'The Death Penalty!" which is a pretty minor factor in the story. It only exist for a "serious jeopardy for character" bit. Life imprisonment and dishonorable discharge are really enough
Like most Trek science, medicine works at the needs of the plot. We see a few old, injured and even infirmed people in TNG. Somethings are beyond medical science, even in TNG/DS9/VOY.
Character X can still commandeer the ship to help a former commander/relative/friend and wind up on "Talos". The big obstacle in The Menagerie is it's a clip show. A flimsy story built around existing footage to save costs. TNG/VOY/DS9/ENT would be creating new footage for any flashbacks. Though they've done that before. In VOY Neelix could be the one who hijacks the ship since he's the only one who could have someone on in the Delta Q to "save". For ENT, T'Pol since she has a history before serving on the Enterprise.
You also seem a little too focused on Pike being the former commander. DISCO, the plot can work as well. Heck, make the ex-CO Prime Georgiou. Saved from the Klingons but horribly injured. Flashback to mission to a "Talos IV" by the Shen Zhou. SNW can do the same, with an ex colleague of any of the regulars subbing for Pike. PIC will always be a problem since it's even more arc based than the rest. Very little room for "Side Quests".
With PIC, I think it's more meaningful to compare it to the TOS Movies than TOS. But, I'm documenting it anyway, just so I can point to it. Really, in my mind, PIC is the least like TOS (on TV, anyway). For the most like TOS, I see it as a three-way race between TNG, VOY, and SNW. I'll be interested to see how that bears out by the time I get to the end.
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Wouldn’t DS9 “Rules of Engagement” kinda sorta fit this. Worf is accused of purposely destroying a Klingon Civilian transport in the middle of battle but it was all a setup by the Empire. It’s not an exact match but I think it’s really close.
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Adding to the list of episodes to take a closer look at when I finish S1.
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