Spoilers Loki season one discussion thread

[Mr. Adventure]

That was a crazy episode of Lovecraft Country.

In the Black Widow thread there's complaints that the MCU is more about setting up the next big thing than telling it's own story and I was kind of feeling that here. The revelation that the man behind the curtain is indeed someone we've never really seen before and just ending on a cliffhanger I didn't find as compelling as I'd hope. Maybe it was just the execution and the end credit scene was the laziest thing I've ever seen. I'm still digesting it and maybe it will be better as it sits but this was easily my least favorite episode of the series (it's all about the journey?).

I have said that I wasn't crazy about Gugu Mbatha-Raw's performance as Renslayer, not that it was bad per se but unremarkable and didn't suggest deeper layers. I gotta say she was pretty good in this episode.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, on the surface it does seem that the TVA mission wasn't wrong. "Kang" did seem to be trying to prevent chaos from other timelines though we may be seeing it as presented by an unreliable narrator (who causes the chaos no less).

 

[Tuskin38]

Well there was one scene in the trailers, that I can remember, that never appeared in the show, a shot of Loki in full costume standing in front of a throne.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Well there was one scene in the trailers, that I can remember, that never appeared in the show, a shot of Loki in full costume standing in front of a throne.

Yeah, I noticed that yesterday when I reviewed the trailers to see what we hadn't seen. There's also a faraway shot of Loki in the Void with the Avengers Tower that we never see, too. Presumably it happened during the initial meeting with the Loki variants.

Speaking of which, it's interesting to see how many shots in the trailer that were digitally altered to hide spoilers. Shots of Loki in the Void are absent the variants and the shots of him walking through the citadel are absent Sylvie. I think there might be a couple of others, too. There are some shots of Sylvie in the trailers but they're either when she was wearing the cloak or its the back of her head. As I noted last week, there's even a very brief shot of the Boastful Loki in the first trailer fighting with his makeshift Mjolnir.

 

[Kor]

I understand today's episode is the finale. I am looking forward to seeing how everything plays out.

Kor

 

[Tuskin38]

There are some shots of Sylvie in the trailers but they're either when she was wearing the cloak or its the back of her head.

Yeah I remember some people speculating it could have been Black Widow.

 

[Skywalker]

Spoiler: Finale stuff

I'm so happy that He Who Remains wasn't just another Loki variant, but rather Kang (or at least a variant of him) as it always should have been. I'm not sure if that was supposed to be Nathaniel Richards or Immortus or if they just decided to make him a random variant since he was doomed to die anyway, but I'm glad they did it. And making it clear that there will be other variants of him popping up was an ingenious way of eventually showing us all of the major facets of that character--Kang the Conqueror, Immortus, Nathaniel Richards, Rama-Tut, etc.--in a rather elegant manner.

 

[Reverend]

Are we sure that Mobius and B15 no longer remember Loki due to a timeline change or did Sylvie actually send Loki into an alternate timeline? She had just gained the device and timelines were branching at that point and possibly even the other universes were beginning to make contact. Perhaps Loki is in a previously blocked off universe where Kang the Conquerer exists as the known being in charge.

That was my assumption given that this show and Endgame made it clear that "changing" a timeline isn't a thing; You're just moving things around in 4 dimensions.

 

[Tarek71]

Bit of a dull pf a dull episode. Probably could have been half in length and still got the message through.
I was hoping for some big reveal at the end with the formation of the x men universe or something but we got nothing

I was hoping for that as well. But thinking more about that, it was always unlikely that something like that would done in one of the TV series. If we see Prof X, Magneto or Wolverine or any of the rest of them, that will be in one of the films. I think the scene where Mobius doesnt remember Loki will be part of that. People who remember the X-Men and recall them as always having been there, while other people who remember it differently.

Are we sure that Mobius and B15 no longer remember Loki due to a timeline change or did Sylvie actually send Loki into an alternate timeline? She had just gained the device and timelines were branching at that point and possibly even the other universes were beginning to make contact. Perhaps Loki is in a previously blocked off universe where Kang the Conquerer exists as the known being in charge.

Depends on what Multiverse of Madness means. That cant just mean that there is a multiverse. That could mean Loki getting in the elevator, getting out on a different floor, and confusingly, there is Mobius again. Except this time, it is the one who remembers him. In what appears to be the same building. That could be where the "madness" comes in. Tobey Maguire Spider Man runs into Tom Holland Spider Man, Fantastic Four, Deadpool, different Lokis, etc.

The various competing, conflicting Kangs being the ones who are causing this.

 

[Saul]

Maybe the split timeline is what leads to mutants in future? If the timelines are merged again maybe that's how they'll do it?

As for the episode today....

Bit of a dull pf a dull episode. Probably could have been half in length and still got the message through.
I was hoping for some big reveal at the end with the formation of the x men universe or something but we got nothing

I admit I found it underwhelming.

..same feeling. Again it was people sitting around talking. A lot of this series has been that.
'Loki' set up a mystery early on that it paid off with a cliffhanger. It's ultimately unsatisfying that there is not some sort of resolution. It's regrettably the weakest of the three Marvel shows that were originally announced. Wanda Vision is still my favorite. Loki started so well but became drawn out.

BTW when Sylvie killed Kang didn't it seem rather quiet? No sound effect, it wasn't shown, we see Kang from behind and then his head drops. I'm wondering if these Disney Plus shows are going to have less visible violence because there will be a larger audience of kids watching. I think I noticed similar things in the first episode too. They don't show the original Loki's death. It cuts away to variant Loki's face.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I'm wondering if these Disney Plus shows are going to have less visible violence because there will be a larger audience of kids watching.

I'm just imagining all those young kids watching Kang bloviate for 40 minutes.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

Depends on what Multiverse of Madness means. That cant just mean that there is a multiverse. That could mean Loki getting in the elevator, getting out on a different floor, and confusingly, there is Mobius again. Except this time, it is the one who remembers him. In what appears to be the same building. That could be where the "madness" comes in. Tobey Maguire Spider Man runs into Tom Holland Spider Man, Fantastic Four, Deadpool, different Lokis, etc.

I like this idea. Sylvie would have had no idea that she was sending Loki to a different multiverse TVA where Loki was unknown. She sent Loki to "a" TVA.

 

[FPAlpha]

As expected.. the multiverse was created ( again?).

Awesome episode and so unlike Marvel to have a finale not be a huge bombastic action set piece but rather 90% fantastically engaging dialogue - by a new actor who acts against Hiddleston's Loki, who loves to talk. The implication is enormous for Marvel going forward - they may keep mostly to the main universe but now they have a tool to really mix it up if they feel like it.

We already know the first effects of it in some coming movies - Holland's Spiderman meeting Maguires' and Garfields' Spidermen, Alfred Molina as Doc Ock and ( i don't know if that's hard rumor) Cox reprising his Netflix Daredevil ( if that happens you will find me under the seat in a happy coma). Of course Strange 2 will deal directly with the Multiverse as he's most suited to and going forward who knows what will happen - will this really become a huge Multiverse War, heroes and villains from all over the Multiverse banding together to fight each other off - this could get even more bonkers than the Infinity Saga finale.

 

[kirk55555]

What a shitty ending. Is that random guy Kang? He doesn't have really any similarities to Kang at all outside of being a time travel guy (they don't share motivations, backstory or apparently names), but then at the end we see a statue of him dressed like Kang. But why didn't they say his fucking name if he's Kang? The endless talking in this episode was horrible, it was like a Brian Michael Bendis comic brought to life. It might as well have been an audio drama for how little happened in the episode. This episode could have been 20 minutes long and lost absolutely nothing of substance. I don't need a lot of action if a story is compelling, but most of the talking in this episode was just repeating shit we knew or could easily understand without the never ending conversation between the Loki's and Maybe Kang.

Also, nothing was resolved, and that shitty "no one remembers Loki" ending "twist" was like the worst m. night shyamalan bullshit (I get that its probably another timeline or a broken time thing, it still sucks). I like there being a multiverse, but they seem to be setting up the destruction of the multiverse when the Maybe Kang variants fight again (for some reason), so it will probably end up one timeline again eventually, which would feel like a real bait and switch, even if its one that takes several years to play out.

This is the reverse Wandavision. WV had the absolute worst fucking start they could have done but got good at around episode 4 and ended strong. Loki started off good but this ending is absolutely worthless shit. I still liked most of the show, its certainly still better then the mediocre and boring Falcon & Winter Soldier, but it has one of the worst endings (if not the worst ending) of an MCU production, and I'm kind of dreading Season 2 now.

 

[Saul]

I'm worried the direction the MCU is taking. Loki, Falcon and Winter Solider and Black Widow aren't bad but they do feel somewhat careless. Black Widow is a normal person without super powers but can survive extreme physical punishment while making lite of her tragic upbringing. Falcon and Winter Solider have a unbalanced John Walker (US Agent) who seems to be suffering from PTSD and kills people in a violent rage but is given a pat on the back by the end of the series, Loki builds up a series with a lot of potential but feels fine to just coast along without actually delivering on anything other than setting up future movies and series. The lead up to Infinity War and Endgame didn't feel as nonsensical as this.

 

[Relayer1]

Wha WV had the absolute worst fucking start they could have done but got good at around episode 4 and ended strong. Loki started off good but this ending is absolutely worthless shit.

I think WandaVision, Falcon & Winter Soldier and Loki all started off very strong, but disappointed at the end.

I've liked all of them enough to keep watching though...

 

[Turtletrekker]

BTW when Sylvie killed Kang didn't it seem rather quiet? No sound effect, it wasn't shown, we see Kang from behind and then his head drops. I'm wondering if these Disney Plus shows are going to have less visible violence because there will be a larger audience of kids watching.

I dunno...

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[Tarek71]

I like this idea. Sylvie would have had no idea that she was sending Loki to a different multiverse TVA where Loki was unknown. She sent Loki to "a" TVA.

I would say the "Madness" had already begun after the branching started and so her portal brought him to the right place, but multiple variants of his life are randomly and chaotically interacting in what appears to him to be the same physical space.

Likely this is happening everywhere to everyone, not just within the TVA. You leave your wife and two daughters in the living room to get a snack in the kitchen and you walk back in 30 seconds later and there is your son and a different wife. They recognize you, but you do not recognize them. Every door you go thru, every place you go, it happens again. Now it's daughters again, but they look different, different car the driveway and no wife because in this timeline she died in a car accident. Etc. Meanwhile, the version of you that does remember that son and that wife just walked back into your living room with your daughters and he is just as disoriented as you are, and so on.

This how you can have someone say "What do you mean? Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters has been here for decades". And there they are! Prof X, Nightcrawler, etc. Lot's of crazy possibilities. I know some didnt like the "telling not showing" extended dialogue and low action in the finale, but there are some really trippy story options open to them now. And I think we should reserve judgement until we see how this whole saga plays out.

 

[Turtletrekker]

That was certainly more (ahem) low-key than I was expecting. A lot of exposition, but delivered with a delightful, manic zeal by Jonathan Majors, more Immortus than Kang or He Who Remains. Certainly not what I was expecting, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[Noname Given]

I liked it. It does seem like this is Kang, or some "variant" of him who later becomes Kang. I was hoping that following on the idea of the Lokis being "survivors" would mean that s/he "who remains" at the end of Time would be some version of Loki, the ultimate survivor. But this was ok too.

It sets up an interesting Season 2 and probably something in the upcoming films. Hopefully Sylvie is back. Not sure why Loki is not recognized. Something in the timeline changed. Which is also promising as an idea. I had thought that they might use this as a way of bringing in the X-Men, for instance. Suddenly there they are and everyone remembers them as having always been there, though this Loki or whoever, does not remember them.

Loki can be merged back in the MCU Timeline and does not die. And in the same way, other characters and groups can be merged into it. Lots of possibilities.

It wasn't "Kang" per se - what the Loki's encountered and Silvie killed was the 'final' version of Kang who's seen everything - aka the character "Immortus."

And IMO - yes, the whole thing was really well done, and sets up the MCU for so much, I LOVED it.

The one thing that really bothered me was the kiss between Lokis <--- That was just plain wrong on SO MANY levels.
(But it also fits in that the only thing Loki can love is another version of Loki.)

As for why Loki wasn't recognized, Sylvie probably sent him to another timeline where a version of Kang the Conqueror is waging 'war' against other versions of himself to become the master of time, and eventually become Immortus, who we've already seen (recall there was a HUGE statue of Kang in the Archive hall Loki ended up in); and the TVA is the instrument the various Kang's use to project their will on the various timelines.

Sounds crazy, but it does really open up a myriad of possibilities for the MCU going forward, leads into the Dr. Strange sequel film "The Multiverse of Madness", and the only question I have now is will "Loki" Season 2 air before either the second Dr. Strange film, or Ant Man 3, where we'll undoubtedly see a really nasty version of Kang The Conqueror?

But yeah, I have to say, I loved this series as it was fun, off the wall, and the story went off in a way I saw coming to a point (IE - I figured we'd see some version of Kang); but I didn't expect Immortus being used to effectively kick the MCU multiverse off the way they did it.

Really looking forward to "Loki" Season 2 (And I really hope at some point they have Loki run into Thor again, either on the Loki series, or a future MCU film, but time will tell.).

 

[The Nth Doctor]

BTW when Sylvie killed Kang didn't it seem rather quiet? No sound effect, it wasn't shown, we see Kang from behind and then his head drops. I'm wondering if these Disney Plus shows are going to have less visible violence because there will be a larger audience of kids watching. I think I noticed similar things in the first episode too. They don't show the original Loki's death. It cuts away to variant Loki's face.

No, they didn't, but you could still hear his neck crack which I found far more disturbing than the visual.

Also what Turtletrekker said.