Spoilers Loki season one discussion thread

[Starkers]

I was just talking about it with a friend yesterday. Marvel just took very superficial notes when they created their Asgardians for the comics, the full mythology has Loki doing things that would make US Bible Belters faint from shock, disgust and outrage

Just Wikipedia how Sleipnir, Odin's horse, came into being according to mythology and you know where i'm going with this.

And i agree with the chemistry between Hiddleston and Wilson, they are so great together. It seems both actors have it easy to create good chemistry with co-actors, as of now i can't remember a movie or show where that was not the case.

I've recently read Neil Gaiman's book on Norse mythology and yeah, anyone who has issues with a female Loki really needs to check to source material! It always amuses me that far right types are so into it, clearly, as with most religious fanatics, they're cherry-picking from the source material!

Anyway that episode was a joy, freed from the need to bring everyone up to speed on who Loki is they were able to relax and enjoy themselves. Hiddleston and Wilson are a hoot!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Nope. In fact Loki brought that aspect up when talking to Mobius. Mobius' reply was that what the Avengers did was part of the sacred timeline and was supposed to happen; ergo, the timekeepers themselves used their powers/technology to allow Steve Rogers to travel to his past and continue to exist and age in said sacred timeline.

If the timekeepers can create a reality pocket where infinity stones have absolutely no power; and completely prune divergent timelines, It follows they have abilities that would allow them to mold their sacred timeline in whatever way they see fit.

Nope.

The Avengers had a basic time machine with limited functions.

The rules we learned in the movie are true for the Avengers, even if those rules are not true for the TVA who have "better" time travel tech.

The TVA does not Help the sacred timeline be, because that would create alt timelines. Their Job is to destroy all alt timelines. They can destroy alt timelines without creating more alt timelines, which is fortunate.

 

[Noname Given]

Nope.

The Avengers had a basic time machine with limited functions.

The rules we learned in the movie are true for the Avengers, even if those rules are not true for the TVA who have "better" time travel tech.

The TVA does not Help the sacred timeline be, because that would create alt timelines. Their Job is to destroy all alt timelines. They can destroy alt timelines without creating more alt timelines, which is fortunate.

Again, as what the Avengers did was approved by the Timekeepers (who per dialog in the show CREATED their 'sacred timeline' - they make the rules for their timeline, and can make exceptions to those rules as well. The TVA 'reality' exists outside the sacred timeline and is it's own thing.

But the point is: It seems the Timekeepers can do whatever they want WRT the timeline. The TVA is just a tool they themselves completely created as while the agents look human, they were never actually born nor have they lived in the actual timeline, they just visit it as needed and obviously have whatever knowledge the timekeepers deemed necessary to perform whatever duties the Timekeepers assigned to them.

But NOTHING the Avengers did with their time machine violated the sacred timeline and Steve Rogers was able to live out a life in his own past because the Timekeepers decreed it so in their sacred timeline (per dialogue of the Mobius character.)

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The TVA picked the history they prefer and enforce it. Just like Relativity let people constantly reset the timeline to save Voyager, they picked the history they like and enforce it.

Marvel is basically doing a temporal Cold War, just doing it better than Trek did.

 

[Noname Given]

The TVA picked the history they prefer and enforce it. Just like Relativity let people constantly reset the timeline to save Voyager, they picked the history they like and enforce it.

Marvel is basically doing a temporal Cold War, just doing it better than Trek did.

It's not a war of any kind; it's a 'Mop up' action. Remember to the TVA time is finite. they can go to the very beginning, very end, or wherever (as evidenced by the trip to 2050 of Earth - 29 years in the current MCU's 'future'.

Everything in the timeline front to back/beginning to end is/was ordained by the Timekeepers, so anything done is just a 'Mop up' of things that 'don't belong.' There are no alternate timelines to worry/conjecture about because the TVA prunes/blows them up so they never ever happened.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Nope. In fact Loki brought that aspect up when talking to Mobius. Mobius' reply was that what the Avengers did was part of the sacred timeline and was supposed to happen; ergo, the timekeepers themselves used their powers/technology to allow Steve Rogers to travel to his past and continue to exist and age in said sacred timeline.

If the timekeepers can create a reality pocket where infinity stones have absolutely no power; and completely prune divergent timelines, It follows they have abilities that would allow them to mold their sacred timeline in whatever way they see fit.

Old Man Steve has been living in the Marvel Cinematic Universe since the 1950s. He's from an alt timeline, that is very similar.

He was already there in the sacred timeline when Young Steve left.

When young Captain America hopped on the time Platform at the end of the movie, that's a different guy and he's dead. He tried to jaunt into demolished alt timelines the TVA had demolished, and that cannot be healthy.

Dead.

Old Man Steve would have been "protected" by the time keepers when he was young, because he's an ongoing component of the sacred timeline.

Young Steve returning the stones is a loose end.

Young Steve is not allowed to return to the sacred timeline even if his destination into the past wasn't murderously exploding. Young Steve needed to be intentionally executed by the TVA even if he didn't accidentally die from misadventure because Hulk and Stark got the rules of time wrong.

It doesn't matter that Young Captain America can't return the stones to the alt timelines the Avengers took them from, because the alt timelines are not there any more to take their stones back.

 

[UssGlenn]

they can go to the very beginning, very end, or wherever

I could have sworn someone said the Timekeepers were busy making decisions about which lines to prune further down the timeline, but I can't seem to find that bit.

 

[Guy Gardener]

They said that the time keepers were busy deciding how time ends, or something like that.

Upstream funk.

Where are you going with this, Loki?

How does it all end?

That’s a work in progress.

Oh, those lazy Time-Keepers. What are they waiting for?

Au contraire.

No. Because while we protect what came before,

they’re toiling away in their chamber,

untangling the epilogue from its infinite branches.

Ah, I see. So, when they’re finished, what happens then?

So are we.

No more nexus events.

Just order.

And we meet in peace at the end of time.

Nice, right?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It's not a war of any kind; it's a 'Mop up' action. Remember to the TVA time is finite. they can go to the very beginning, very end, or wherever (as evidenced by the trip to 2050 of Earth - 29 years in the current MCU's 'future'.

Everything in the timeline front to back/beginning to end is/was ordained by the Timekeepers, so anything done is just a 'Mop up' of things that 'don't belong.' There are no alternate timelines to worry/conjecture about because the TVA prunes/blows them up so they never ever happened.

You don’t think it’s being pulled in that direction?

I’m skeptical they’re going to leave something in the universe with absolute power to trump all other events.

 

[JD]

I missed the first 40 pages of this thread, but someone must have remembered that Ravonna is Kang's girlfriend, right?

According to Wikipedia she's [Gugu Mbatha-raw] playing Ravonna Renslayer, who in the comics in is a love interest of Kang the Conquerer, who we already know is the villain of Ant-Man and The Wasp: Quantumania. I'm assuming that's not a coincidence.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Unless they change up MCU version of Kang to not be a conquerer of time but of realms and Ravonna is simply a fun easter egg?

 

[Nerys Myk]

The thing I remember about Ravonna in the comics is she's in a coma and Kang's always moping about that.

 

[Reverend]

IIRC in the comics: 1) Kang's thing was that he was a despot from the future. 2) The Time-Keepers are similarly from the future and their whole "sacred timeline thing" is just a front for what they're really doing which is ensuring that they get to exist by preventing any variance in their past.

I wouldn't be shocked if the MCU makes Kang one of the three Time-Keepers. Probably the one in the middle...who kinda looks like Kang...

 

[Noname Given]

IIRC in the comics: 1) Kang's thing was that he was a despot from the future. 2) The Time-Keepers are similarly from the future and their whole "sacred timeline thing" is just a front for what they're really doing which is ensuring that they get to exist by preventing any variance in their past.

I wouldn't be shocked if the MCU makes Kang one of the three Time-Keepers. Probably the one in the middle...who kinda looks like Kang...

I was just about to float that idea: That the MCU was going to have Kang as one of the Timekeepers.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

I was just about to float that idea: That the MCU was going to have King as one of the Timekeepers.

I was thinking something like that. Why does there HAVE to be only one timeline? The Timewasters don't want the competition, and at some point any other timeline could develop the ability/technology to challenge them.

The had no issue with the Avengers time travelling because they are from the same timeline.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Unless they change up MCU version of Kang to not be a conquerer of time but of realms and Ravonna is simply a fun easter egg?

I think the whole point of introducing Kang in an Ant-Man movie is that the quantum realm is the key to time travel.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

There have been a few sites that put forth the "Kang is the Timekeeper in the middle" theory.

Of course I can't find them now, but they were on yahoo main page.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

There have been a few sites that put forth the "Kang is the Timekeeper in the middle" theory.

Of course I can't find them now, but they were on yahoo main page.

I ignore every theory on the internet now. They went overboard with WandaVision and didn't come close anyways, so I'm just enjoying the ride the shows give us. They're almost taking the fun out of the shows by overhyping what they think is next instead of what's making what's currently on so great.

 

[matthunter]

I was thinking something like that. Why does there HAVE to be only one timeline? The Timewasters don't want the competition, and at some point any other timeline could develop the ability/technology to challenge them.

The had no issue with the Avengers time travelling because they are from the same timeline.

Of course, even then there are no guarantees. The Time Lords in Doctor Who are much like the TVA here - "outside time" and maintaining "established history" (by which we mean the history they have mapped out). And they allowed other timelines too! But still got their arses kicked by the Daleks from OUR timeline, because they didn't take them seriously.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

I ignore every theory on the internet now. They went overboard with WandaVision and didn't come close anyways, so I'm just enjoying the ride the shows give us. They're almost taking the fun out of the shows by overhyping what they think is next instead of what's making what's currently on so great.

I agree, but that said, I love trading ideas here with a bunch of (I mean this) intelligent, fan-knowledgeable nerds like me that I've interacted with for years. It's not quite as good as having you all over for beer, nachos, and the latest streaming release, but it's close enough.