That was so good!!!
"Logic extremists"
- Thread starter AntonyF
- Start date
They're one of the most diverse species on Star Trek, period--especially in its live-action incarnations. This is so, even compared to humans.
I don't think killing Sarek was meant as a message. I.e. traditional terrorism.
I believe it was meant to derail the peace talks, keep the Federation in the war, kill one of the most prominent integrationists, and generally advance their political agenda through sheer absence of Sarek.
I believe it was meant to derail the peace talks, keep the Federation in the war, kill one of the most prominent integrationists, and generally advance their political agenda through sheer absence of Sarek.
But he said "This will serve as a rallying cry." If it was even discovered what he did(if he had succeeded), wouldn't it just derail his movement?
He probably has a manifesto set to upload once the the deed was done. And like many fanatics he thought people would rally to the cause.
Yeah, I don't like this 'Logic extremists' thing. Though I suppose the other Vulcans we saw in TOS kinda sucked, and DS9 had a fairly illogical portrayal of Vulcans. If there's one guy who will murder people because he saw photos of them smiling, and one who thinks the logical way to prove Vulcan superiority is to beat them at baseball, why not Vulcan terrorists?
Just seems like not an interesting place to take Vulcans. Just like 'Oh let's find more things to make dark for shock value'. Not something very inspired.
Just seems like not an interesting place to take Vulcans. Just like 'Oh let's find more things to make dark for shock value'. Not something very inspired.
Didn't TNG go there first in "Gambit"?
The peace talks were a flop anyway.
Yeah, through the actions of an individual apparently acting alone as one among several villains in the episode. Not as a main plot point of a continuous arc.
Well it was a two part episode.
Thats like a half a season in serial years. We don't know if this will be revisited. Might not be referenced again . So calling it a main plot point is a bit premature.The implication in Gambit was there were other Vulcans who thought the same way.
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I am curious where the philosophy of the IDIC fits in with the Vulcan society? Since there seems to be different factions within Vulcan society, do you think the concept of IDIC is strong (also is IDIC ever credited to Surak's teachings. I know in TOS it was a creation from Gene Roddenberry and merchandise sales, but was there ever any history of where it came from in the ST world?)
I've been rewatching TOS and to be honest, I don't see here IDIC fits in. There's maybe one episode here they push it, with Spock wearing the necklace, but Vulcans in general have always come across as smugly superior isolationists who don't like to associate with outsiders unless absolutely necessary. Spock is an exception. He's half human and in many ways, over the later decades, he shows himself as a more open minded individual, striving to achieve ideals that the purer Vulcans themselves are often failing at.
It was pretty much tacked on with out much thought.
IDIC: Infinite Drivel and Infinite Consternation. Richard III has more flesh on his bones than this concept.
I think IDIC fits in perfectly with narrow-minded Vulcans.
It's a trait of people that the limits of their tolerance and inclusiveness often extend no further than the edge of their social circle. For example, the message "Love thy neighbor as thyself" would be redundant and unnecessary, if it represented normal human behavior. Its importance depends in part upon the fact that it doesn't. Criminal laws exist as a means of trying to stop the problems that occur from people acting contrary to them. That undesirable but existing behavior reflects a darker side of humanity that we have decided collectively to try to overcome. Laws and religious commandments are aspirational, but they don't define what humanity actually is at the moment.
Why should Vulcans be any different? Why should their values be any less aspirational and indicative of their flaws? Vulcans wouldn't need to meditate to be more logical, if being logical through and through were actually their nature. Why shouldn't Vulcans often fail to appreciate diversity, even as they're taught to value it instead?
The existence of illogical, arrogant Vulcans makes sense to me, as it does for there to be some Vulcan extremists. Surak tried to show Vulcans a different way, but that doesn't mean that he was 100% successful. Assuming he had been would be illogical.
It's a trait of people that the limits of their tolerance and inclusiveness often extend no further than the edge of their social circle. For example, the message "Love thy neighbor as thyself" would be redundant and unnecessary, if it represented normal human behavior. Its importance depends in part upon the fact that it doesn't. Criminal laws exist as a means of trying to stop the problems that occur from people acting contrary to them. That undesirable but existing behavior reflects a darker side of humanity that we have decided collectively to try to overcome. Laws and religious commandments are aspirational, but they don't define what humanity actually is at the moment.
Why should Vulcans be any different? Why should their values be any less aspirational and indicative of their flaws? Vulcans wouldn't need to meditate to be more logical, if being logical through and through were actually their nature. Why shouldn't Vulcans often fail to appreciate diversity, even as they're taught to value it instead?
The existence of illogical, arrogant Vulcans makes sense to me, as it does for there to be some Vulcan extremists. Surak tried to show Vulcans a different way, but that doesn't mean that he was 100% successful. Assuming he had been would be illogical.
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