That's what the MACOS were for. They were the military.
Location of Federation HQ post The Burn
- Thread starter mattman8907
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That's what the MACOS were for. They were the military.
where is this information in canon?
DS9 "Rapture"
thanks. What do they say, that bajoran militia will become Starfleet?
It’s been too long since my last DS9 rewatch...next is planned for 2021.
Pretty much, yeah.
A Starfleet admiral says this: "Bajor's admission is only the beginning. Now comes the hard part. Federation council members have to be chosen, the Bajoran militia has to be absorbed into Starfleet."
I see. Oh well, as silly as it sounds it’s canon, then.
Sillly and canon are not mutually exclusive.
Which implies that Bajor would continue exist as a seperate political entity at some level (most likely primarily internal affairs). It's entirely possible that United Earth enjoyed similar provisions.
Again, that doesn't necessarily mean they would be disbanded, merely that they would brought into the Starfleet chain-of-command and their senior officers appointed at equivalent levels to their rank. Given that (even accounted for TrekLit) we have only two general ranks and maybe a brigadier/commodore equivalent (Senior Colonel/Colonel Commandant?), that would likely put them at no more than three-pip ADM equivalent which is the same rank held by the Starfleet "Sector Commander" in any case (Bill Ross canonically).
Don't see why would it be silly.
It makes sense for space assets to be absorbed into Starfleet because the organisation is a defensive and exploratory arm of the Federation.
Its a lot easier to work with rather than having Bajoran militia with its own ranks and structure alongside Federation (much like we saw it on DS9).
The Bajorans who are part of the militia would have their ranks 'converted' into Starfleet ranks for example etc.
I would also imagine that Bajor would also get a new (Starfleet design) Starbase in its orbit, with orbital defensive systems, shipyards, etc. (or Bajorans who are now part of SF would be constructing their own shipyards of Federation design - and of course if they have ideas to improve them, they'd be integrated).
Nowhere was it mentioned that Federation Starfleet is a military organisation. In fact, Picard vehemently shot down that notion the moment it was uttered on several occasions.
Also, Earth Starfleet may be different, but the MACO's were not Starfleet (but this was BEFORE the founding of the Federation in the mid 22nd century).
I would imagine that Earth Starfleet simply expanded to become Federation Starfleet at the foundation of the Federation when the Federation charter was made (while adopting numerous protocols from its founding members in First Contact procedures, etc.).
At the risk of reopening an old wound...
There is enough evidence that the Federation Starfleet IS a military organization to override the opinion of one man, even if it's Picard.
And speaking of which, in ST:Picard, that very same man is said to be one of Starfleet's top MILITARY strategists. So I'd say your original premise is flawed at best.
Whenever there's heated debate, there's probably semantic pedantry at play, too.
So it's pretty trivial to assert that Military and Starfleet are names for two different fighting organizations, which are as dissimilar as the Army and the Navy, and as mutually competitive as those two.
Indeed, Military was a word of this exact nature in real history only a century or so ago, the going term for the Army, and the diametrical opposite of Navy. Since one of the main features of Star Trek is that the future will be like the past, especially when it comes to terminology (heck, the 2260s sound like the 1960s!), it is only natural that these particular definitions might revert, too.
So Archer the proud solider might be expected to have an axe to grind with Hayes the proud soldier, because he's Military and Archer's Starfleet. And Picard the proud soldier would be insulted by the idea that his Starfleet warriors would have to engage in mindless drills that only the Military, with its masses of infantry in need of firm guidance on things such as where to walk and how fast, stoops to.
Not everybody would have an interest in this pedantry, though. So it's only on occasion that the word Military (that is, Army) is thrown out as an insult. Although of course our good Military men may throw out the word Starfleet (that is, Navy) as an insult often enough, and we just aren't there to listen to this.
Timo Saloniemi
So it's pretty trivial to assert that Military and Starfleet are names for two different fighting organizations, which are as dissimilar as the Army and the Navy, and as mutually competitive as those two.
Indeed, Military was a word of this exact nature in real history only a century or so ago, the going term for the Army, and the diametrical opposite of Navy. Since one of the main features of Star Trek is that the future will be like the past, especially when it comes to terminology (heck, the 2260s sound like the 1960s!), it is only natural that these particular definitions might revert, too.
So Archer the proud solider might be expected to have an axe to grind with Hayes the proud soldier, because he's Military and Archer's Starfleet. And Picard the proud soldier would be insulted by the idea that his Starfleet warriors would have to engage in mindless drills that only the Military, with its masses of infantry in need of firm guidance on things such as where to walk and how fast, stoops to.
Not everybody would have an interest in this pedantry, though. So it's only on occasion that the word Military (that is, Army) is thrown out as an insult. Although of course our good Military men may throw out the word Starfleet (that is, Navy) as an insult often enough, and we just aren't there to listen to this.
Timo Saloniemi
If Starfleet is not a military organization, then what are those Earth Navy type rank like Admiral, Captain, Commander, Lieutenant, Ensign, etc for? Even NASA doesn't use military rank.
A lot of non-military organizations use military ranks: Police departments, airlines, cruise lines...
Yeah, use of military rank doesn't automatically mean military.
However, the whole court-martial thing does strike me as a bit more of a good indicator.
Organizations like NOAA and USPHS use uniforms and Naval ranks. I wonder if they have court-martials? Google says yes
A court-martial in the Federation is probably there because SF officers are given huge responsibilities (not to mention very powerful technology to use responsibly).
It still wouldn't make it a military organisation... the court-martial is there as a disciplinary action.
The worst off get rank removed and they go to a penal colony (and if its not for life, then it stands to reason they will only ever be allowed to function as civilians).
Also, we've seen Starfleet being highly flexible when it came to REVOKING court-martial sentence after a character did something which helped Starfleet and the Federation to a large amount.
I would say being expected to fight wars was a better one. No one expects the police, firefighters, cruise ship staff or commercial pilots to lead troops into battle and they have ranks.
If Starfleet is not the armed forces, then it needs to keep its backside planetside when the shooting starts.
Until the above is done by some other organisation, the not soldiers just explorers mantra is bullshit.
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